GHT120 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I'm in the same boat, a new job with long hours and lots of adjustment - the only game I've watched properly was the Rags game. But it looks like I picked the right season to be distracted from hockey... Hope the new job goes better than the habs season to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Savard - Chiarot have been together and on the ice for 3 of the 4 Sharks goals (and numerous scoring chances). Ive been saying for weeks now, this pair DOES NOT WORK. They are simply two of the same style of defencemen, with the same strengths and weaknesses. Similarly Kulak, Wideman, and Niku are all similar. Why they don't do Chiarot - Wideman/Niku Kulak - Savard I simply don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Wow 4 - 0 are they playing that bad. Things just died down at work so able to actually watch some of the game. Seems like when ever theirs a habs game on it gets busy here at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: Savard - Chiarot have been together and on the ice for 3 of the 4 Sharks goals (and numerous scoring chances). Ive been saying for weeks now, this pair DOES NOT WORK. They are simply two of the same style of defencemen, with the same strengths and weaknesses. Similarly Kulak, Wideman, and Niku are all similar. Why they don't do Chiarot - Wideman/Niku Kulak - Savard I simply don't understand. You are not alone. I think that the only two people on Earth who think those pairings are a good idea are Ducharme and Richardson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Savard - Chiarot have been together and on the ice for 3 of the 4 Sharks goals (and numerous scoring chances). Ive been saying for weeks now, this pair DOES NOT WORK. They are simply two of the same style of defencemen, with the same strengths and weaknesses. Similarly Kulak, Wideman, and Niku are all similar. Why they don't do Chiarot - Wideman/Niku Kulak - Savard I simply don't understand. From the highlights that I've been seeing Wideman looks like the only stand out on D so far. We need some Playmakers on D, to many two way players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Not even Yvonne can save them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: From the highlights that I've been seeing Wideman looks like the only stand out on D so far. We need some Playmakers on D, to many two way players. Too many two-way players? The issue is they are one way players. Kulak, Niku, Wideman are all puck movers and mobile players, who are not the most physical defenders. Savard and chiarot are one-way, defensive defencemen, with physical games. I dont understand why we are playing the players together who both have the same strengths and weaknesses, instead of mixing the pairs so one dman compliments the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Not even Yvonne can save them Yvonne right now: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Commandant said: I dont understand why we are playing the players together who both have the same strengths and weaknesses, instead of mixing the pairs so one dman compliments the other. I absolutely agree that it makes no sense whatsoever. i.e. playing 2 big slow dmen as a pair would make it easier to exploit their slowness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Might as well get all those goals out of our system in one game, I guess ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Damn, this is so incredibly painful. In several games now the Habs have had numerous great scoring chances that should have been goals - but amazingly they haven't scored on any of them yet. They just seem incredibly snake bitten/cursed. Insanely, they seem to have a similar issue with keeping pucks out their own net too. I imagined they'd allow more goals than last year, but they should be able to somewhat counter that by being a higher scoring team this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pino10 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 People actually paid to see this? This coaching staff is so in over their heads. Hopefully the protection of Ducharme will come to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 I understand @Commandant frustration with the defensive pairings, but in all honestly it doesn't matter even if they are running Price and Allen on their top pairing if they are scoring LESS than a goal a game. They haven't scored 2 goals in a single game in 4 games. Currently San Jose has more goals against the Habs this season than the habs have vs the entire NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Unlike the other 3 games, in this game I didnt really notice any glaring obvious team mistakes. However, I cant help but wonder what impact the subtraction of Chiarot would have? i.e. how many bad penalties has he taken so far? How many goals against have come from his penalties? I could be wrong but so far it seems like the other teams have 100% success rate with scoring while he is in the penalty box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 The “redundant” pairings make no sense, but they worked admirably in the playoffs. The only explanation is that the coaches keep hoping they will work again; classic linear thinking from NHL coaches. I’m with Commandant, like most of you; you seek *complementary* players on your D pairings, not identical guys with identical weaknesses. 5-0 - Jeebus. This is shaping up to be The Titanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 53 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: I understand @Commandant frustration with the defensive pairings, but in all honestly it doesn't matter even if they are running Price and Allen on their top pairing if they are scoring LESS than a goal a game. They haven't scored 2 goals in a single game in 4 games. Currently San Jose has more goals against the Habs this season than the habs have vs the entire NHL. The best defence is pinning the other team in their own end and not letting them near your goal. In other words you need to get the puck out of your end in order to go on the attack. The two pairs get beat. The Kulak-Wideman pair can get hemmed in by a heavy forecheck and cycle game and have no one to break it up. Chiarot-Savard get beat with speed. The fact is we cant create offence if the defensive pairs get beaten up We were beaten up in the first. Shots were like 14-3. The D is a big part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Getting dusted by a bottom-feeder at home, but what do you expect from a team that lost its leader at forward, defence and goal. Our Centre and D groups are among the worst in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 8 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I still would take Savard over Karlsson at this point in their career Youd really take Savard, over an Karlsson. Yes he is not the player he was and is overpaid now, but he’s still 10 times the player Savard is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 53 minutes ago, Commandant said: The best defence is pinning the other team in their own end and not letting them near your goal. In other words you need to get the puck out of your end in order to go on the attack. The two pairs get beat. The Kulak-Wideman pair can get hemmed in by a heavy forecheck and cycle game and have no one to break it up. Chiarot-Savard get beat with speed. The fact is we cant create offence if the defensive pairs get beaten up We were beaten up in the first. Shots were like 14-3. The D is a big part of that. I’ve been saying that all summer. This D is trash. Better pairings will help a little, but in the regular season when the actually call penalties, the defensive S are too slow and the offensive Dmen just aren’t very good. with the exception of Petry we are a team of bottom pairing and depth dmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Commandant said: [...] Savard and chiarot are one-way, defensive defencemen, with physical games. [...] Is it possible that we have miscast Savard. He is not. Speedster but seems to be able to keep up He doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to how Weber was physical; Chiarot and Savard look very similar: strong D able to handle big forwards and most of the time able to clear the crease they both seem to be pinching in and going deep in the offensive zone but have gotten poor covering by forwards on their tries They would benefit from having a true stay at home D or to become that type of player if playing with a Kulak, Niku or Romanov In this view. I would play: Kulak-Perry Romanov-Savard Chiatot-Wideman/Niku* I would push Kulak and Romanov one notch when Edmundson comes back I am agreeing that we should split the 2nd pair; but I am not convinced those two are the stay at home type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Youd really take Savard, over an Karlsson. Yes he is not the player he was and is overpaid now, but he’s still 10 times the player Savard is. Tonight Karlsson won that contest, but on most nights I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 8 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Is it possible that we have miscast Savard. He is not. Speedster but seems to be able to keep up He doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to how Weber was physical; Chiarot and Savard look very similar: strong D able to handle big forwards and most of the time able to clear the crease they both seem to be pinching in and going deep in the offensive zone but have gotten poor covering by forwards on their tries They would benefit from having a true stay at home D or to become that type of player if playing with a Kulak, Niku or Romanov In this view. I would play: Kulak-Perry Romanov-Savard Chiatot-Wideman/Niku* I would push Kulak and Romanov one notch when Edmundson comes back I am agreeing that we should split the 2nd pair; but I am not convinced those two are the stay at home type Both Savard and Chiarot are well-known commodities. They are, we might say, third-tier when it comes to offensive production for D-men, in that 20-25 points is not unrealistic for either. (Savard’s totals plunged in recent years, but that may owe something to Columbus being a gong-show and then being way down the depth chart on a stacked Tampa team). But it doesn’t follow that they have been miscast as stay-at-home guys. They are very mediocre as offensive defencemen; their bread and butter is rather their reliable defensive game. If the Habs are now in a situation where they have to build game plans to support these D-men on excursions into the offensive zone, then that is a classic case of players trying to do too much, trying to play roles for which they are ill-suited, because of a deficiency of talent on the team. A bit like when Brisebois was cast as our #1 defenceman and asked to play on his wrong side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 @Commandant DD is on these forums and listened to your criticism of the defensive pairings. The practice lines today reflect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 44 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: @Commandant DD is on these forums and listened to your criticism of the defensive pairings. The practice lines today reflect it. Per RDS: Drouin - Dvorak - Anderson Hoffman - Suzuki - Gallagher Toffoli - Perreault - Caufield Lehkonen - Evans/Brooks - Paquette/Armia Kulak - Petry Chiarot - Wideman Romanov - Savard Power Play Toffoli Drouin - Dvorak - Hoffman Petry Perreault Caufield - Anderson - Suzuki Wideman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 13 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Is it possible that we have miscast Savard. He is not. Speedster but seems to be able to keep up He doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to how Weber was physical; Chiarot and Savard look very similar: strong D able to handle big forwards and most of the time able to clear the crease they both seem to be pinching in and going deep in the offensive zone but have gotten poor covering by forwards on their tries They would benefit from having a true stay at home D or to become that type of player if playing with a Kulak, Niku or Romanov In this view. I would play: Kulak-Perry Romanov-Savard Chiatot-Wideman/Niku* I would push Kulak and Romanov one notch when Edmundson comes back I am agreeing that we should split the 2nd pair; but I am not convinced those two are the stay at home type I keep seeing Savard getting burned wide. His mobility is clearly an issue. He was a good skater when he was younger but has lost a half step. This has removed his offence that he had earlier in his career as well. I'm not saying he is as physical as Weber, but he doesn't have issues with power forwards, he has issues with speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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