GDT Oct. 23, Red Wings vs Habs, 7 PM

[tomh009]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I had to check:

Florida Panthers           tied for 1st 10pt
Buffalo Sabres             10th          7pt
Detroit Red Wings       12th          7pt
Boston Bruins              14th          6pt
Tampa Bay Lightning  21st          5pt
Toronto Maple Leafs   22nd          5pt
Ottawa Senators         24th          4pt
Montreal Cannadiens  30th          2pt
                                                       46pts/42gms (1.095pt/gm)

 

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2021/league

OK, so I did miss those pesky Florida teams, duh. But 1.095 is still not impressive, it would be maybe mid-pack over a full season.

[tomh009]

11 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

With our 1st rounder at stake, I’d rather do a tank. (...)

 

those getting excited over Saturday are delusional. We were better, but really not that good still. Just better than the other dumpster team we were playing.

We gave away a first-rounder to AZ for Dvorak, and so far I have no regrets about it. It could be ours, or it could be Florida's if they collapse (yes, unlikely).  But how big the gap is between those two, and how much difference it makes in pick quality, no one knows yet.

 

As for Saturday, Detroit isn't looking dumpsterish this year (yet) -- they were 3-1-1 coming into Saturday's game.

[hab29RETIRED]

Just now, tomh009 said:

We gave away a first-rounder to AZ for Dvorak, and so far I have no regrets about it. It could be ours, or it could be Florida's if they collapse (yes, unlikely).  But how big the gap is between those two, and how much difference it makes in pick quality, no one knows yet.

 

As for Saturday, Detroit isn't looking dumpsterish this year (yet) -- they were 3-1-1 coming into Saturday's game.

I think we probably finish between the bottom 8 and 13. Maybe even 11th worst. I are the hell don’t want to give up that and a 2nd for Dvorak.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

We gave away a first-rounder to AZ for Dvorak, and so far I have no regrets about it. It could be ours, or it could be Florida's if they collapse (yes, unlikely).  But how big the gap is between those two, and how much difference it makes in pick quality, no one knows yet.

 

As for Saturday, Detroit isn't looking dumpsterish this year (yet) -- they were 3-1-1 coming into Saturday's game.

They may finish ahead of us - good chance the will, but the are still among the ten worst teams in the league - they may be better depending on some of their kids. Clearly not even a bubble team in the East. They can only get worse, and while we can get better, are also clearly not a playoff team - bubble or otherwise.

[tomh009]

3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

They may finish ahead of us - good chance the will, but the are still among the ten worst teams in the league - they may be better depending on some of their kids. Clearly not even a bubble team in the East. They can only get worse, and while we can get better, are also clearly not a playoff team - bubble or otherwise.

My point was that at this point in the season they have not (yet) been playing like a dumpster-fire team.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

My point was that at this point in the season they have not (yet) been playing like a dumpster-fire team.

Did you watch the game Saterday… yeah, they played better the nex night, and their kid had a big game yesterday, but despite 3 wins, they haven’t looked great.

[GHT120]

40 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think it’s a bigger dilemma than the usual tank, or remain a bubble miss team.  This year the difference is either we lose our 1st rounder, or have a lottery pick ...

Very true ... it makes the buy/sell decision more difficult ... IMO, doing neither is not acceptable ... either make a serious try for the playoffs or give up early ... finishing JUST outside the playoffs likely means not drafting until at least 18th (absent Carolina sucking) when the draft is in Montreal and without even a couple of playoff games to justify it to the fanbase.

 

40 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

... id also look at clearing cap room for the future.  go to Gallagher, ask him if he wants to b me around for a rebuild, and hope he waives his NMC/NTC (can’t remember which).  His cap hit is going to get ugly pretty fast anyways ...

Per CapFriendly Gallagher's no trade clause is only a list of 6-teams ... so still 25 options available regardless ... only need to get him to waive it if the best offer is from a team on that list.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

But come the deadline, or in the couple of weeks leading up to it, if still in a bubble position a crucial decision will have to be made ... buy to improve playoff chances ... sell to add picks and "Pain for Shane" ... or ... stick their head in the sand and cross their fingers that they don't end up giving Arizona the 11th pick.

 

Yup, hopefully it's an obvious decision leading up to the deadline.  The Habs have lost too many important components to dream about a cup this year.  This is the year to get a top 10 pick and acquire more picks at the deadline looking 3-5 years down the road at being a serious contender. Of course some of their young defence prospects will have to develop for that to happen.

[tomh009]

44 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Yup, hopefully it's an obvious decision leading up to the deadline.  The Habs have lost too many important components to dream about a cup this year.  This is the year to get a top 10 pick and acquire more picks at the deadline looking 3-5 years down the road at being a serious contender. Of course some of their young defence prospects will have to develop for that to happen.

Another first-rounder, sure, or maybe an early second-rounder. But we already have a ton of picks and will be hitting our contract limit once again, so additional late-round picks are not terribly useful.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Another first-rounder, sure, or maybe an early second-rounder. But we already have a ton of picks and will be hitting our contract limit once again, so additional late-round picks are not terribly useful.

 

Agree that late round picks are not useful as we have plenty in the 3rd and 4th rounds already. Charot will get a 1st for sure as multiple contenders would be interested. Lehkonen could  possibly get a 2nd.  

[GHT120]

10 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Another first-rounder, sure, or maybe an early second-rounder. But we already have a ton of picks and will be hitting our contract limit once again, so additional late-round picks are not terribly useful.

 

7 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Agree that late round picks are not useful as we have plenty in the 3rd and 4th rounds already. Charot will get a 1st for sure as multiple contenders would be interested. Lehkonen could  possibly get a 2nd.  

Extra picks can be used in trades, giving the freedom to "go get" a player they fear will be gone by their draft position (usually outside the first round) without losing draft depth.

[johnnyhasbeen]

If we get a 1st for Chiarot we hit the jackpot. 

8 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agree that late round picks are not useful as we have plenty in the 3rd and 4th rounds already. Charot will get a 1st for sure as multiple contenders would be interested. Lehkonen could  possibly get a 2nd.  

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Y’know, I have never been a Tanquiste. But I’ve also long been pessimistic about how the Habs will look post-Weber/Price. If this year turns out to be a disaster and we then ship out a couple of core pieces at the deadline for a handsome return that really beefed up the prospect pool, I would not object to that.

[DON]

11 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 But we already have a ton of picks and will be hitting our contract limit once again, so additional late-round picks are not terribly useful.

Picks are simply assets and Bergevin has been doing more swapping of picks on draft floor than any other GM, it seems. So more is better and useful i think (not sure what Patrick Roy will be like).

But when, Tampa and Leafs only have all of 1 more win than the Habs today, i wouldnt be looking to clean house just yet. we can wait till the new year before seriously looking towards the draft.

[alfredoh2009]

8 minutes ago, DON said:

Picks are simply assets and Bergevin has been doing more swapping of picks on draft floor than any other GM, it seems. So more is better and useful i think (not sure what Patrick Roy will be like).

But when, Tampa and Leafs only have all of 1 more win than the Habs today, i wouldnt be looking to clean house just yet. we can wait till the new year before seriously looking towards the draft.

For me, November will be an interesting month to look at the Habs team play. Edmundson will be back and most of the new players should have learned the Habs system.

It would be the right time to go on a winning streak or to confirm this team is just junk

[Neech]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Y’know, I have never been a Tanquiste. But I’ve also long been pessimistic about how the Habs will look post-Weber/Price. If this year turns out to be a disaster and we then ship out a couple of core pieces at the deadline for a handsome return that really beefed up the prospect pool, I would not object to that.

 

Wow, tanking after 6 games? LOL

 

But yeah we need to add some talent to a young core that has Suzuki and CC and a bunch of question marks.  

[dlbalr]

11 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Agree that late round picks are not useful as we have plenty in the 3rd and 4th rounds already. Charot will get a 1st for sure as multiple contenders would be interested. Lehkonen could  possibly get a 2nd.  

 

Tampa was ridiculed for paying a 1st for Savard last year and Chiarot is another one of those types of players.  I think multiple contenders would certainly be interested but I'd be stunned if there were teams offering up a 1st rounder, especially if he stays at the same level he has been at the first couple of weeks of the season.  He's absolutely their best rental asset if they have to go that direction but unless he really takes off, I think a 2nd + a later pick is the more likely scenario.

[tomh009]

If he picks up his game (and I do expect him to), maybe a 1st for Chiarot + 2nd might be a possibility ...

[DON]

20 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

If he picks up his game (and I do expect him to), maybe a 1st for Chiarot + 2nd might be a possibility ...

A 1st, really? and a 2nd?

A 2nd would be about best i would hope for.

Not a chance on a 1st pick for Chiarot, is my guess.

[tomh009]

36 minutes ago, DON said:

A 1st, really? and a 2nd?

A 2nd would be about best i would hope for.

Not a chance on a 1st pick for Chiarot, is my guess.

I think you misunderstood. Let me try this.

 

If he picks up his game (and I do expect him to), maybe a (1st) for (Chiarot + 2nd) might be a possibility. And, yes, only a possibility: it depends on how well Chiarot plays, and how badly someone would need such a D-man.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, DON said:

A 1st, really? and a 2nd?

A 2nd would be about best i would hope for.

Not a chance on a 1st pick for Chiarot, is my guess.

 

Edmonton has already said they are willing to deal their 1st round  pick, they are all in this year.  Giving up a pick in the 25-30 range for a team that has a chance to go all the way is a small price to pay.  Charot would be a valuable asset come playoff time.  I have no doubt that a healthy Charot  would get us a 1st round pick.  

[DON]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

I think you misunderstood. Let me try this.

 

If he picks up his game (and I do expect him to), maybe a (1st) for (Chiarot + 2nd) might be a possibility. And, yes, only a possibility: it depends on how well Chiarot plays, and how badly someone would need such a D-man.

Sure.

I hope 1st- Habs are still in it at deadline; if not i hope can add some high picks for some guys.

I hope Chiarot would demand a 1st pick, just i doubt he is seen as that good outside Habland. But, just my opinion and we shall see how plays out in 4 months.

[Commandant]

If he is playing well around deadline time, i could definitely see a first rounder being in play.  Keep in mind that the team trading for him will likely be picking late in the 20s. 

 

A second would be in the late 50s, and I think if he's playing well, he's worth more than that. 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Teams always overpay at the deadline for that one player that they think can get them over the hump.  Vegas gave up a 1st , 2nd and a 3rd for Thomas Tatar.  Montreal got Josh George and a 1st from San Jose for Craig Rivet. Leafs gave up a 1st round pick plus for Jake Muzzin, Anaheim got a 1st round pick for Brandon Montour.  Countless examples of over paying at the deadline.  It's the best time to be a seller. 

[hab29RETIRED]

32 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Teams always overpay at the deadline for that one player that they think can get them over the hump.  Vegas gave up a 1st , 2nd and a 3rd for Thomas Tatar.  Montreal got Josh George and a 1st from San Jose for Craig Rivet. Leafs gave up a 1st round pick plus for Jake Muzzin, Anaheim got a 1st round pick for Brandon Montour.  Countless examples of over paying at the deadline.  It's the best time to be a seller. 

With the exception of Tampa, most teams should restraint last year.  I can see a teams like Edmonton, Colorado, or even Florida overpaying, but not many others.