GHT120 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: I couldn't disagree more. His scoring chances per 60min have always been really good but his shot % really bad after his rookie year. If there is a coach and a skills development group that can help keep "peak-Lehkonen" going is the Habs' Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I'm on the trade Lehkonen while his value is highest train. Like CC, I'm very wary of paying him on a 40 point season that he can't repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Commandant said: I'm on the trade Lehkonen while his value is highest train. Like CC, I'm very wary of paying him on a 40 point season that he can't repeat. I don't think Hughes and Gorton are stupid enough to pay based on a single season of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I don't think Hughes and Gorton are stupid enough to pay based on a single season of performance. Lehkonen's agent knows that he has arbitration rights and then could be a UFA.... it's not about being stupid, its about Lehkonen having the leverage here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Commandant said: Lehkonen's agent knows that he has arbitration rights and then could be a UFA.... it's not about being stupid, its about Lehkonen having the leverage here. Would an arbitrator be stupid enough to set the award based on a single season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: My thing with Lehkonen is, he's a 3rd line guy who we'd be keeping around for his value as a stabilizer and "role model" during the rebuild. But with his value at its absolute peak - he is unlikely to get any better, only to decline sooner or later - there is a real danger of overpaying in both dollars and term for a player who any good organization would replace from within rather than overpay. That's what good franchises do: lock up irreplaceable core pieces, and maximize value with role-players and bottom-end guys like Lehkonen. We already have Gallagher locked up on a deal that is probably untradeable to serve as a hard-working winger who can mentor the young guys in "playing the right way." So I would say, if you can't trade Gally, then you deal away Lehks for maximum return. Don't carry two "role model" wingers on bad contracts for years to come. 100% agree. we also have some overpaid lazy ass guys like Armia, that are going to be hard to move because of term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, tomh009 said: Would an arbitrator be stupid enough to set the award based on a single season? Arbitrators set the award based on comparable numbers, so yes.... it would entirely be based on his numbers and comparables (other players who signed after one season like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, tomh009 said: Would an arbitrator be stupid enough to set the award based on a single season? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Arbitrators set the award based on comparable numbers, so yes.... it would entirely be based on his numbers and comparables (other players who signed after one season like that). They basically only look at the latest season? That would be crazy, but then we're talking NHL and NHLPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, tomh009 said: They basically only look at the latest season? That would be crazy, but then we're talking NHL and NHLPA. They weigh the most recent season more heavily than previous years, yes. Both sides submit briefs... Lehkonens' agent would submit a brief highly weighted to his most recent season, plus the playoff run, plus his strong defensive numbers. The Habs would counter and try to say that this isn't a normal season for him, but that usually doesn't get very far. They are going to look at his last few seasons, but there is a high probability that they will find his most recent season to be the most relevant one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I'm on the trade Lehkonen while his value is highest train. Like CC, I'm very wary of paying him on a 40 point season that he can't repeat. There's the possibility that Lekky has actually improved his shot and will be more productive going forward. Some players peak in their late 20's. He showed flashes at the beginning of his career but then had seasons of just seeming to be snakebitten in front of the net. I don't think this will be his last season of ~40 point production. I'd be sad to see him go, but if we have the chance to add high quality assets for the future it would certainly be a case of selling high. On the other hand, if we gave him 4x4M I wouldn't be too worried because I think he'd be worth the cap hit and would be the type of vet you want for the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 If we do trade him, I would like to see a solid prospect in return, rather than a late first-rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 45 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If we do trade him, I would like to see a solid prospect in return, rather than a late first-rounder. I actually think he is worth more than Chiarot right now given some of the other options at D. Retain 50% of his salary, and I think Lekhonen will bring even a higher return. It would be nice to get a Suzuki type asset over a late first rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: It would be nice to get a Suzuki type asset over a late first rounder. Lehkonen isnt Pacioretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, DON said: Lehkonen isnt Pacioretty. Yeah, but we also aren’t taking a salary back that Vegas was trying to unload. That was also a summertime move. Teams do stupid things and the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Teams do stupid things and the deadline. The odd team does stupid things at the deadline now and then but the number of teams that do that has dwindled considerably over the years. Vegas trading three picks for Tatar a few years ago, for example, doesn't mean they're going to vastly overpay for a player at this deadline. Teams are learning that deadline moves often don't pan out as planned so there aren't as many big swaps with huge overpayments anymore. Wanting a top-six centre prospect over a late first-rounder isn't realistic when the former is worth a lot more than the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Re. Lehks. lots of good points made already. one thing that I’d read and made sense is that this is the first time he has had a coach who did not emphasize defensive play and encouraged creativity and perhaps that is allowing Lehks to shine….? That does have some truth to it, but given our plethora of overpaid depth players there really isn’t room for him even tho he would be great fit. Think the “sell high” camp may be on the money, approach him well about it and maybe he comes back in 2-3 years when we are challenging. He’s an awesome 3rd liner on a good team with cup plans. Definitely need to be a winning move tho where we exploit a teams playoff push and get a sure fire win on the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 You aren't getting a 1st line C prospect for Lehkonen. If you could, trading him wouldn't even be a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Commandant said: You aren't getting a 1st line C prospect for Lehkonen. If you could, trading him wouldn't even be a debate. How much might he demand though, if keeps scoring over next week or so? I know short term hot runs might be disregarded, but been playing well for awhile now, since Toffoli can back from injury, i think? (Toffoli 7g 12pts in12gms with Flames, good for him and hope he does well in playoffs, might get me to pull for Flames a bit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, DON said: (Toffoli 7g 12pts in12gms with Flames, good for him and hope he does well in playoffs, might get me to pull for Flames a bit.) The better Calgary does in the playoffs, the worse it is for the Habs since they hold Calgary's first-rounder. The best case scenario for Montreal is that the Flames slump to end the season and get bounced in the first two rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, DON said: How much might he demand though, if keeps scoring over next week or so? I know short term hot runs might be disregarded, but been playing well for awhile now, since Toffoli can back from injury, i think? (Toffoli 7g 12pts in12gms with Flames, good for him and hope he does well in playoffs, might get me to pull for Flames a bit.) Demand in terms of contract? He's probably asking for at least what Armia got, if not a touch more on a long-term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Demand in terms of contract? He's probably asking for at least what Armia got, if not a touch more on a long-term deal. Return in trade i meant. 2nd round or late 1st pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, DON said: Return in trade i meant. 2nd round or late 1st pick? If the best you can get is a 2nd round pick then you keep him. He is worth way more than a 2nd round pick and that pick would likely be a late 2nd rounder as it would be a contending team interested. Either a 1st or a later pick and a good prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 hours ago, dlbalr said: The odd team does stupid things at the deadline now and then but the number of teams that do that has dwindled considerably over the years. Vegas trading three picks for Tatar a few years ago, for example, doesn't mean they're going to vastly overpay for a player at this deadline. Teams are learning that deadline moves often don't pan out as planned so there aren't as many big swaps with huge overpayments anymore. Wanting a top-six centre prospect over a late first-rounder isn't realistic when the former is worth a lot more than the latter. What about the leafs trading for Foligno given the cost. We got Danault and a 2nd rounder for weise and Flieschman - I think a 2nd rounder in itself was too much for those two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: If the best you can get is a 2nd round pick then you keep him. He is worth way more than a 2nd round pick and that pick would likely be a late 2nd rounder as it would be a contending team interested. Either a 1st or a later pick and a good prospect. I agree with that. Though I think we might even be able to get a late 1st and a prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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