KoZed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 BTW, Pouliot's prefered jersey # is 27. I wonder if it's the one they'll give him. So soon after Kovy, another hyper-talented lazy #27 would be weird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I hope they actually plan on giving him an offensive role and not hypnotize him with "play without puck" and 3 years later wonder why his scoring instincts are gone, like they did with Lats. Yeah, it's a problem I think a lot of coaches seem to have. I understand them wanting to develop guys as complete players, but I think they often go too far. They keep drilling defensive hockey and force them to fill that role. It seems to me that you want a guy to have already built up his confidence before you start changing his game. With offensive players, let them be creative and pair them with responsible players. Let them do what they're good at before you concentrate solely on what they need to improve. People always want to use Hitchcock and Modano as an example of how a great offensive player became a great complete player. The thing is, Modano was already established as an excellent offensive player before Hitchcock got involved. It's the same reason Rick Nash is a complete player and Nik Zherdev is back in Russia - Nash had already won a Richard trophy before Hitchcock rounded out his game. Zherdev had only moderate success and Hitch ruined his confidence by concentrating so much on the negatives. If you ask me, as long as a young player is playing hard, let him be who he is before you try to mold him. I mean, can you imagine if Lafleur had been just coming up in the 80's when Montreal started stressing defense first hockey? His career in Montreal very likely would have began just like it ended - poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah, it's a problem I think a lot of coaches seem to have. I understand them wanting to develop guys as complete players, but I think they often go too far. They keep drilling defensive hockey and force them to fill that role. It seems to me that you want a guy to have already built up his confidence before you start changing his game. With offensive players, let them be creative and pair them with responsible players. Let them do what they're good at before you concentrate solely on what they need to improve. People always want to use Hitchcock and Modano as an example of how a great offensive player became a great complete player. The thing is, Modano was already established as an excellent offensive player before Hitchcock got involved. It's the same reason Rick Nash is a complete player and Nik Zherdev is back in Russia - Nash had already won a Richard trophy before Hitchcock rounded out his game. Zherdev had only moderate success and Hitch ruined his confidence by concentrating so much on the negatives. If you ask me, as long as a young player is playing hard, let him be who he is before you try to mold him. I was going to bold parts of the post I wanted to at, then realized I was bolding the whole post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah, it's a problem I think a lot of coaches seem to have. I understand them wanting to develop guys as complete players, but I think they often go too far. They keep drilling defensive hockey and force them to fill that role. It seems to me that you want a guy to have already built up his confidence before you start changing his game. With offensive players, let them be creative and pair them with responsible players. Let them do what they're good at before you concentrate solely on what they need to improve. People always want to use Hitchcock and Modano as an example of how a great offensive player became a great complete player. The thing is, Modano was already established as an excellent offensive player before Hitchcock got involved. It's the same reason Rick Nash is a complete player and Nik Zherdev is back in Russia - Nash had already won a Richard trophy before Hitchcock rounded out his game. Zherdev had only moderate success and Hitch ruined his confidence by concentrating so much on the negatives. If you ask me, as long as a young player is playing hard, let him be who he is before you try to mold him. I mean, can you imagine if Lafleur had been just coming up in the 80's when Montreal started stressing defense first hockey? His career in Montreal very likely would have began just like it ended - poorly. +2 Good point! For example, I fear that Duchene in Denver is being asked to play a more defensive game and his offensive up side is being negated as a result... in last years draft, I felt he had 1st pick potential; mind you the AVE's could flip things on him and cut him loose offensively, specially if injuries take a toll on that AVE's current first line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 BTW... Pouliot's nickname: Big Ben. How original... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Yeah, it's a problem I think a lot of coaches seem to have. I understand them wanting to develop guys as complete players, but I think they often go too far. They keep drilling defensive hockey and force them to fill that role. It seems to me that you want a guy to have already built up his confidence before you start changing his game. With offensive players, let them be creative and pair them with responsible players. Let them do what they're good at before you concentrate solely on what they need to improve. People always want to use Hitchcock and Modano as an example of how a great offensive player became a great complete player. The thing is, Modano was already established as an excellent offensive player before Hitchcock got involved. It's the same reason Rick Nash is a complete player and Nik Zherdev is back in Russia - Nash had already won a Richard trophy before Hitchcock rounded out his game. Zherdev had only moderate success and Hitch ruined his confidence by concentrating so much on the negatives. If you ask me, as long as a young player is playing hard, let him be who he is before you try to mold him. I mean, can you imagine if Lafleur had been just coming up in the 80's when Montreal started stressing defense first hockey? His career in Montreal very likely would have began just like it ended - poorly. The Canadiens played the same defensive style in the 60s and 70s and when Lafleur came up HE WAS forced to play defense like every other player coming up in the Canadiens system. Talent dictated the 1980s philosophy, but the Habs goaltenders put up huge numbers for more than four decades, it was not all because of their talent. Bowman was one of the greatest defensive coaches in history. Look at Lafleur's numbers his first 3 years in the league. He didn't become a dominant offensive force until he was 23 years old and had paid his dues. Lafleur was going to be a star regardless of where he played, he chafed under Lemaire in the 80s because he was past his prime at 31. We are not talking about today's athlete who is training year round, we are talking about a player who smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day, partied through his twenties and was not surrounded with the talent he was in the 70s. Mats Naslund was a point per game player in the 80s, I find it hard to believe that Lafleur would not have been a 100+ point player in the exact same circumstance. Edited November 24, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Colin, I love the enthusiasm, but doesn't the flip side concern you? The Wild, an organization that covets it's young players, and tries to build through the draft, just unloaded it's 4th overall pick, for a player that is a weak skater, and plays a one-dimensional game. We're now thinking about a repalcement for Plex, with a player who has 9 goals total, in his career? Benoit looks like one skinny 6"3 player to me. I don't mind seeing Gui go, and frankly, he looks like a little bitch with his comments on the way out, but wow, we're getting too excited I think. The Wild are doing a similar purge to what we're doing. In Minnesota, they ditched their GM as well as coach, and brought in an entirely different philosophy (heck, they named a captain for the first time, and we've gone into a season for the first time without one). Why? Because their development program had gone stale. They developed Gaborik (who left for nothing), Koivu, Schultz and Burns into good NHLers, but then had a pure bust in Thelen, problems with O'Sullivan, problems with Poliout and now problems with Sheppard and Gilles. So I think your Minnesota perception is from their pre-lockout days and not their post-lockout reality. I also don't think this really applies to Plex's future at all. I don't expect Benoit to get healthy and score 20 goals to finish off the season. I think this officially spells the end of Chipchura, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The Canadiens played the same defensive style in the 60s and 70s and when Lafleur came up HE WAS forced to play defense like every other player coming up in the Canadiens system. Look at Lafleur's numbers his first 3 years in the league. He didn't become a dominant offensive force until he was 23 years old and had paid his dues. This is exactly what I was thinking. I really like this deal. Maybe its because I haven't seen Pouliot since he was drafted. But I think Latendresse's lack of speed and lack of quick hands means he will never be a top 6 forward. On the other hand I think (hope) Pouliot's skill set mean he could still become a number 1 centre. Even if this is a long shot, I'm glad Gainey took it. We have been searching for a big skilled centre forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 +2 Good point! For example, I fear that Duchene in Denver is being asked to play a more defensive game and his offensive up side is being negated as a result... in last years draft, I felt he had 1st pick potential; mind you the AVE's could flip things on him and cut him loose offensively, specially if injuries take a toll on that AVE's current first line... Sorry to interrupt for a second... but how exactly is Duchene being limited offensively? He centers the second line, sees plenty of powerplay time. Sacco just added Hejduk (who he's exhibited great chemistry with, shame Tucker can't keep up with them) to his line and took him off the PK (even though he was one of our best) so he can focus more offensively. Everyone so far is extremely impressed with Duchene, the production will come in due time. He's had crap linemates for most of the year. I don't see how the coaching staff has hindered Duchene at all this year. Anyway, sorry for the interruption, I probably shouldn't be in Habs Talk but I wanted to defend Dutchie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Interesting quote: "Pouliot has more points than Lats this season with only 14 games played with the league's worst offense" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Finally that tugboat is out of the system! Amen to that. I think the purpose of this trade was to improve on speed, which is what Gainey and Martin are trying to build this team on. IMO, latendresse was never going to pan out to what fans hoped for. Each and every habs game I've went to, i watched Guillaume in warm-up. He never ever could hit the net. His confidence was always shaky, and he always gripped that stick a little too tight and missed chances that should have been buried. I'm going to stay very firm on this and say the Habs won in this deal. Pouliot is around my age...he was great coming up in junior, and I am excited to see him in a Canadiens jersey. His only con is that he comes off as cocky....if he can weather the storm there, I am optimistic he will be a Nick Foligno-type player for the Canadiens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Pouliot + Lapierre = pure speed. Well... if they play togheter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 "Latendresse admitted to me that he needs a fresh start, that he and coach Jacques Martin were like oil and water and that the real player is the one that was seen the past few years, not this year. Skating is his biggest issue. He's a big guy who hits hard when he wants to, but as they say, it's all about getting there. Apparently the Canadiens wanted him to go to the net more and he felt he was a shoot one-timers kind of guy. " So. The Habs wanted him to go to the net, but he decided he knew how to play the game better. Oh the shock of his falling out with Martin. :ninja: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 From the RedLine Report back in 2005: Benoit Pouliot combines size with an elegant, even graceful skating ability that gives him as big an upside as any forward in the draft. Though not yet a finished product, Pouliot has come further, and faster, than anyone in this year's class. With his speed, vision and passing ability, he can play a finesse game, but he also has the power and disposition to get mean and physical with teams that want to play that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The 2005 Draft is looking weirder and weirder. #3 pick Jack Johnson was traded before even playing a game with Carolina #4 pick Benoit Pouliot just traded after only 65 games in 3 seasons with Minny #6 pick Gilbert Brulé traded to Edmonton last year after failing miserably in 3 seasons in Columbus #7 pick Jack Skille struggling in the AHL on Chicago's farm team #9 pick Brian Lee doing the shuttle between AHL and Ottawa #10 pick Luc Bourdon, R.I.P. #11 pick Anze Kopitar top of the NHL #13 to #16 picks incl. all busts who haven't played a single NHL game. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I also don't think this really applies to Plex's future at all. I don't expect Benoit to get healthy and score 20 goals to finish off the season. I think this officially spells the end of Chipchura, though. With the Pouliot trade, a few things come to mind before a potential backup to Plex's departure... 1. Is Gomez hurt long term? 2. Is Latendresse's buddy Lapierre close to being shipped out as well? and 3. as it was posted above, has Chipchura just been pushed off the depth chart at C? It's after that list that I start to think about Plekanec's future, and this entire list is pretty well dependant on IF Martin plays Pouliot as a centre over the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I think this a good trade as long as we can wake pouliot up, and playing in Montreal can do that. I think there is at least 1 maybe 2 more trades coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 BTW, Pouliot's prefered jersey # is 27. I wonder if it's the one they'll give him. So soon after Kovy, another hyper-talented lazy #27 would be weird... Pouliot will be wearing # 57 for the Habs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 If the kid's a 6'3 C then this trade looks pretty damned good. I am wildly unimpressed with Latendresse's departure. He basically slags Martin for not explaining his role, grumbles that he never saw top-6 ice time (I guess he felt entitled to it), and rips the Habs for not giving young players a chance - specifically, not signing them to long-term contracts. I guess he deserved a 5-year deal for $2 mil per. Could it be that JM is simply not a coach who accepts any attitude of entitlement or BS from his players and is continuing the purge of Country Club Canadiens? "Latendresse admitted to me that he needs a fresh start, that he and coach Jacques Martin were like oil and water and that the real player is the one that was seen the past few years, not this year. Skating is his biggest issue. He's a big guy who hits hard when he wants to, but as they say, it's all about getting there. Apparently the Canadiens wanted him to go to the net more and he felt he was a shoot one-timers kind of guy. " So. The Habs wanted him to go to the net, but he decided he knew how to play the game better. Oh the shock of his falling out with Martin. :ninja: Coach tells the player what to do...Player says screw you...Player sees limited ice time...Player complains...Player gets moved out of Montreal... I don't know how much of this trade was motivated by bad attitude or country club mentality but if you refuse to play as your instructed to play then you are a problem. Who else is not listening to uncle Jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Coach tells the player what to do...Player says screw you...Player sees limited ice time...Player complains...Player gets moved out of Montreal... I don't know how much of this trade was motivated by bad attitude or country club mentality but if you refuse to play as your instructed to play then you are a problem. Who else is not listening to uncle Jack? "Uncle Bob" became annoying enough. Now it's "Uncle Jack"? If only we could at least have "Cousin Vinny" to offset this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 My personal opinion is that this is a no-lose trade for either team. This is a change of scenery trade which was necessary for both players. Just like Ribs was never going to become the player he is today in Montreal, such is the same for Lats and Pouliot. I think Lats will find some confidence in Minny, and I'd like to think he can become a 25-goal man there. Pouliot? Apparently, when you read his scouting reports anyhow, the sky's the limit. Most interesting trade coming out of Montreal in a VERY long time. I agree, but the evaluation of the trade will be more like this: Pouliot does well = BG is a genius Latendrese scores against MTL in a Wild win = BG is an idiot! Why did he trade Lats away for nothing??!! Pouliot scores 25 G = BG is a genius Latendrese scores 25 G = BG is an idiot! He should be fired NOW! Ad infinitum, Ad nauseum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 "Uncle Bob" became annoying enough. Now it's "Uncle Jack"? If only we could at least have "Cousin Vinny" to offset this.. Ah, you are good for one of these a week Kozed. Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The way I see it is that we got a guy who could be a first line player or a career AHLer, depending on how he's handled. Traded and established NHLer to get him, but a 3rd liner at best. With guys like Pacioretty, White and Pyatt in the system, he won't be missed too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The way I see it is that we got a guy who could be a first line player or a career AHLer, depending on how he's handled. Traded and established NHLer to get him, but a 3rd liner at best. With guys like Pacioretty, White and Pyatt in the system, he won't be missed too much. He will be missed by RDS & co. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I always wanted to like Latendresse, but never could. Maybe Pouliot will win me over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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