johnnyhasbeen Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The Gazette is carrying this rumour. Geez, if this happens, I imagine his brother is next? It's discouraging. Look at the major parts of the rebuild that never even came over here and made the effort: Emelin and Valetenko. Look at the key cogs gone (Higgins and Komisarek); the skilled C given away for minimal return on a franchise desperate for quality depth at C (Ribeiro, Grabovksi); the defencemen tossed away (Beauchemin, Streit, Hainsey); and the 'promising players' who have yet to put together two convincing seasons in a row (Plekanec, the Kostitsyns). The (First?) Great Gainey Rebuild died with a whimper, not a bang. I know, I know, I'm overreacting and probably sound whiny. Every one of those decisions can be justified. Everyone in hockey was drooling over these same players and tentatively proven wrong. But you look at a team like Boston that re-emerged as a contender after, really, only two years in the wilderness, through adept drafting and UFA signings, and you really have to shake your head: why couldn't that happen here? It's like a few bad decisions compounded by lots of bad luck and...poof. (The good news is that Gainey's re-assembled core may provide a far better veteran foundation for Rebuild 2.0. Nonetheless, I still get gloomy from time to time about what a disappointment the past 6 years turned into). We had a season 2 years ago much like Boston did last year, and were considered a contender going into last year. I consider the team to be much improved over those teams and therefore a contender again this season. WHo is to say that the Booins don't bomb this season? I like that the media has us picked to miss out of the playoffs as they are always wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 We had a season 2 years ago much like Boston did last year, and were considered a contender going into last year. I consider the team to be much improved over those teams and therefore a contender again this season. WHo is to say that the Booins don't bomb this season? I like that the media has us picked to miss out of the playoffs as they are always wrong! We were the hottest thing on ice not long ago. Last year Gainey iced an excellent squad, but Lang's and other serious setbacks shifted the weight of expectation onto the shoulders of a rookie kid goalie. POOF! Man proposes, Allah disposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 We were the hottest thing on ice not long ago. Last year Gainey iced an excellent squad, but Lang's and other serious setbacks shifted the weight of expectation onto the shoulders of a rookie kid goalie. POOF! Man proposes, Allah disposes. and Kali is my goaltender. Budai is my backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Rumor (just a rumor): Hawks would be willing to trade Patrick Sharp for SK; Apprently, Hawks can't afford Sharp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Rumor (just a rumor): Hawks would be willing to trade Patrick Sharp for SK; Apprently, Hawks can't afford Sharp It'd be nice to have Sharp, but like Chicago, it's not like the Habs could afford him either being just $250,000 under the cap. (I'm looking at a similar rumour, it says that both Kostitsyns would be part of the deal as well as another player going to the Hawks. That might make it more plausible cap wise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Edmonton and Chicago seems to be a good fit for Sergei thinking about reuniting him with Kane or Gagner. Maybe we could get Schremp or something like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Maybe we could get Schremp or something like this... Schremp was claimed off waivers by the Isles 2 days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Schremp was claimed off waivers by the Isles 2 days ago. Bah, maybe a pick then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Shanahan has left the Devils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonJ Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 he would be a solid vet presence, and the big body we are looking for. if we have an injury in our top 6 he should be waiting by the phone. this is assuming that he won't just retire for good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) he would be a solid vet presence, and the big body we are looking for. if we have an injury in our top 6 he should be waiting by the phone. this is assuming that he won't just retire for good... Well, I read that he would think about retiring or not We may have a Mats Sundin saga 2.0 Edited October 1, 2009 by rafikz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonJ Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, I read that he would think about retiring or not We may have a Mats Sundin saga 2.0 maybe he is just resting up for a playoff run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The Devils wanted to play some younger guys instead of him, and Shanny doesn't want to be a role or part-time player. Shanny has noticeably lost a few steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The Devils wanted to play some younger guys instead of him, and Shanny doesn't want to be a role or part-time player. Shanny has noticeably lost a few steps. There's a niche market out there for anyone with inventing capabilities: a walker with blades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Screw Sergei. Hold onto his rights, if he doesn't want to play, don't play. When was the last time a player demanded a trade and the team who traded him came out ahead? This is on HIM. Not Gainey. It is up to him if he wants to play in the NHL, if he doesn't want to? Rot at home, sooner or later he will realize who is in control. I am tired of accomodating these ridiculous demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 A poster on H I/O (OK, this *is* a rumour thread) reports that Scott Morrison of Hokey Night in Toronto expects John Michael Liles to show up in a Habs jersey. I don't grasp the cap logic but one assumes the Kostitsyn Bros' salary would come off the books in return... Probably crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 A poster on H I/O (OK, this *is* a rumour thread) reports that Scott Morrison of Hokey Night in Toronto expects John Michael Liles to show up in a Habs jersey. I don't grasp the cap logic but one assumes the Kostitsyn Bros' salary would come off the books in return... Probably crap. I pray it is crap. It is short term thinking. What the hell are they going to do with Markov, Spacek, Liles, Subban and Weber in a year? Everything has seemingly fallen apart in the last year because they are thinking short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I pray it is crap. It is short term thinking. What the hell are they going to do with Markov, Spacek, Liles, Subban and Weber in a year? Everything has seemingly fallen apart in the last year because they are thinking short term. You're without a doubt, one of this sites top contributors, a must read. However, the idea that everything has seemingly fallen apart because of short term thinking is way off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 When was the last time a player demanded a trade and the team who traded him came out ahead? Well, the first thing that pops into my mind is the Nordiques with Lindros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 When was the last time a player demanded a trade and the team who traded him came out ahead? The Senators with Yashin?? (they did get Chara for him!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) You're without a doubt, one of this sites top contributors, a must read. However, the idea that everything has seemingly fallen apart because of short term thinking is way off base. Hmmm. It's a good, fundamental question. In many ways the rebuild has already fallen apart: Higgins, Streit and Komisarek gone; its veteran anchors (Koivu, Kovalev) disposed of; its defining coach gone. We also threw away a lot of draft picks on Schneider, Lang, and Tanguay - all gone. So there can be no question that Bob sacrificed a lot for short-term goals in 2008-09, and there's no question that core components of the rebuild have now been tossed overboard. Bob has thus rebuilt on the fly via free agency. Two ways to look at it. One is that he's replaced a declining, aging, and inadequate core with a younger, superior one, and that this will provide a better platform for the up-and-coming young talent as well as the 'young vets' like Kostitsyn, Gorges, Price and Plekanec to succeed. So the 'plan' - building from within - continues, just with a new veteran core and minus Higgins and Komisarek, who were never that great anyway. (Well, maybe Komi). The other is that he's failed to lock up core players (c.f. Komisarek) and has fatally locked us into bad contracts for years to come in order to field a competitive team in the short term. In this case, everything has indeed fallen apart because of short-term logic. Time will tell. I do feel we're in good company in spending to the cap, and if the cap doesn't collapse then I have no beef with this. For me, Year 100 has to be viewed as an aberration. If Gainey wants this to be our new core I have no problem with it, but I emphatically don't want us throwing away further picks/young players, especially not to address temporary problems. What I want is two things: 1. Better development of young players. We've tossed away too many talented youngsters because they were 'immature' (Ribs, Grabovski, and coming soon to a TSN update near you, at least one Kostitsyn) and we lost Komi (and perhaps indirectly Higgins) in part because of questionable contract policies and in part because of a lack of internal mentorship. There's a sense that Gainey is bringing an old-school logic to new-school young players and that a more proactive approach would have helped. (Martin over Carbo is a good step - maybe the crucial step - in this direction). Instead he's scrambled to repair problems that, ideally, would have been anticipated. 2. Better drafting. Sorry, but the Great Gainey Rebuild simply failed to yield elite talent except in goal. Not slagging Timmins here, but Higgins, Lapierre, Komisarek, Pacioretty, D'Agostini, Plekanec, the Kostityns, O'Byrne, Gorges (acquired through trade but still young)...NONE of these players has yet shown any convincing, consistent signs of being elite players. Not one of those forwards is unambiguously a top-6 forward in the NHL. I have no problem with the idea of four balanced lines, and I agree that these are all useful players...but the idea of the Habs as an elite drafting/developmental organization has to be questioned at this point. Other teams seem able to find convincingly strong players with some regularity. Our young guns, meanwhile, have turned out to be more like pop-guns. So that's how I feel. Rebuild 1.0 didn't work out and it's partly Gainey's fault. Whether 'short term thinking' has fatally ruined us will be an open question until the future of the cap is resolved. Edited October 6, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thib46 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well, the first thing that pops into my mind is the Nordiques with Lindros. S Kostityn is not Lindros, or Chara, or Yashin, comparison would be apples to lemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hmmm. It's a good, fundamental question. In many ways the rebuild has already fallen apart: Higgins, Streit and Komisarek gone; its veteran anchors (Koivu, Kovalev) disposed of; its defining coach gone. We also threw away a lot of draft picks on Schneider, Lang, and Tanguay - all gone. So there can be no question that Bob sacrificed a lot for short-term goals in 2008-09, and there's no question that core components of the rebuild have now been tossed overboard. Bob has thus rebuilt on the fly via free agency. Two ways to look at it. One is that he's replaced a declining, aging, and inadequate core with a younger, superior one, and that this will provide a better platform for the up-and-coming young talent as well as the 'young vets' like Kostitsyn, Gorges, Price and Plekanec to succeed. So the 'plan' - building from within - continues, just with a new veteran core and minus Higgins and Komisarek, who were never that great anyway. (Well, maybe Komi). The other is that he's failed to lock up core players (c.f. Komisarek) and has fatally locked us into bad contracts for years to come in order to field a competitive team in the short term. In this case, everything has indeed fallen apart because of short-term logic. Time will tell. I do feel we're in good company in spending to the cap, and if the cap doesn't collapse then I have no beef with this. For me, Year 100 has to be viewed as an aberration. If Gainey wants this to be our new core I have no problem with it, but I emphatically don't want us throwing away further picks/young players, especially not to address temporary problems. What I want is two things: 1. Better development of young players. We've tossed away too many talented youngsters because they were 'immature' (Ribs, Grabovski, and coming soon to a TSN update near you, at least one Kostitsyn) and we lost Komi (and perhaps indirectly Higgins) in part because of questionable contract policies and in part because of a lack of internal mentorship. There's a sense that Gainey is bringing an old-school logic to new-school young players and that a more proactive approach would have helped. (Martin over Carbo is a good step - maybe the crucial step - in this direction). Instead he's scrambled to repair problems that, ideally, would have been anticipated. 2. Better drafting. Sorry, but the Great Gainey Rebuild simply failed to yield elite talent except in goal. Not slagging Timmins here, but Higgins, Lapierre, Komisarek, Pacioretty, D'Agostini, Plekanec, the Kostityns, O'Byrne, Gorges (acquired through trade but still young)...NONE of these players has yet shown any convincing, consistent signs of being elite players. Not one of those forwards is unambiguously a top-6 forward in the NHL. I have no problem with the idea of four balanced lines, and I agree that these are all useful players...but the idea of the Habs as an elite drafting/developmental organization has to be questioned at this point. Other teams seem able to find convincingly strong players with some regularity. Our young guns, meanwhile, have turned out to be more like pop-guns. So that's how I feel. Rebuild 1.0 didn't work out and it's partly Gainey's fault. Whether 'short term thinking' has fatally ruined us will be an open question until the future of the cap is resolved. This is not a rebuild. This is the team. This is the core. They have no cap space. So this works, or mediocrity ensues. The moves Gainey made this summer were short term thinking. He had this season in mind. Lindros and Yashin are good examples, but took place 10 to almost 20 years ago. In the cap system you are likely to see a Kessel type package. The Bruins will only win that if the Leafs yield a top 6-7 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 This is not a rebuild. This is the team. This is the core. They have no cap space. So this works, or mediocrity ensues. The moves Gainey made this summer were short term thinking. He had this season in mind. Lindros and Yashin are good examples, but took place 10 to almost 20 years ago. In the cap system you are likely to see a Kessel type package. The Bruins will only win that if the Leafs yield a top 6-7 pick. wtf? 28 y.o., 29 y.o. and 30 y.o. (camm, gomer and gionta) all locked up for 5 years. that's short term? 5 years ago we drafted Kostytsyn 6 years ago we drafted Chipchura those guys are still projects! that's frikkin LONG TIME in hockey. if you hate the habs so much guys, just go on a leafs board, im getting sick and tired of your constant useless destructive rambling. no place for that on a "fans" board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 wtf? 28 y.o., 29 y.o. and 30 y.o. (camm, gomer and gionta) all locked up for 5 years. that's short term? 5 years ago we drafted Kostytsyn 6 years ago we drafted Chipchura those guys are still projects! that's frikkin LONG TIME in hockey. if you hate the habs so much guys, just go on a leafs board, im getting sick and tired of your constant useless destructive rambling. no place for that on a "fans" board. ???? Wamsley is one of the very best contributors around here and doesn't deserve that. Chill out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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