Where are they now? News on past Habs prospects and players

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Dvorak was pretty much a panic deal once he lost Kotkaniemi.

 

It certainly was a panic deal. Panic deals rarely turn out. 

[Commandant]

The bigger issue was always losing Danault not Kotkaniemi. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

The bigger issue was always losing Danault not Kotkaniemi. 

 

Very true...but I, and I believe most posters on this board, fully endorsed letting Danault walk given the contract he demanded. And I/we believed KK would replace what Danault brought.

 

I/we were certainly wrong all the way down the line on that. But that's why I've always gone easy on criticizing MB for losing Danault. It'd be hypocritical to condemn him for making a move (or non-move) most of us endorsed at the time.

 

However, if MB knew KK was not going to sign long-term here because he "wanted a change of scenery," as GHT120 reports above, then that makes his refusal to sign PD harder to understand. In fact, it was very out of character for MB to NOT overpay for a guy he liked and who the team needed.

 

So MB's comment about KK sounds like bunk to me. He too thought KK could replace Danault, was caught with his pants down by the CAR offer sheet, and then made a desperation move to get Dvorak. The whole file was a mess. 

 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Very true...but I, and I believe most posters on this board, fully endorsed letting Danault walk given the contract he demanded. And I/we believed KK would replace what Danault brought.

 

I/we were certainly wrong all the way down the line on that. But that's why I've always gone easy on criticizing MB for losing Danault. It'd be hypocritical to condemn him for making a move (or non-move) most of us endorsed at the time.

 

However, if MB knew KK was not going to sign long-term here because he "wanted a change of scenery," as GHT120 reports above, then that makes his refusal to sign PD harder to understand. In fact, it was very out of character for MB to NOT overpay for a guy he liked and who the team needed.

 

So MB's comment about KK sounds like bunk to me. He too thought KK could replace Danault, was caught with his pants down by the CAR offer sheet, and then made a desperation move to get Dvorak. The whole file was a mess. 

 

 

 

 

This whole mess started because they decided to keep KK up with the big team when he was 18 thinking an entitled 18 year old was going to be a saviour at the center ice position. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

8 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

This whole mess started because they decided to keep KK up with the big team when he was 18 thinking an entitled 18 year old was going to be a saviour at the center ice position. 

 

Yes, the MB organization had no idea about player development. I think PR tended to drive those decisions, frankly.

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

And likely highly influenced by the need to IMMEDIATELY replace Kotkaniemi because it was MB's final season?

He would have has to find a centre in any case. And there weren’t a lot of good options as far as I can recall. It could be that the final season influenced him but I doubt he would have made a far better decision even if he were planning to renew. Just my opinion…

[tomh009]

41 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

However, if MB knew KK was not going to sign long-term here because he "wanted a change of scenery," as GHT120 reports above, then that makes his refusal to sign PD harder to understand.

It’s not clear but he might not have found out about Kotkaniemi’s desire to leave until the offer sheet.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

He would have has to find a centre in any case. And there weren’t a lot of good options as far as I can recall. It could be that the final season influenced him but I doubt he would have made a far better decision even if he were planning to renew. Just my opinion…

 

Yeah, I tend to agree.

 

MB was always, always of the philosophy that "you make the playoffs and anything can happen."

 

That means he was inevitably going to operate via improvisational patch-up jobs rather than any real strategic plan or vision.

 

Thank God he is gone

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Dvorak was pretty much a panic deal once he lost Kotkaniemi.

Smart GM's don't make panic deals.

[tomh009]

1 minute ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Smart GM's don't make panic deals.

Overall, trading was still his strength, in spite of this deal and the Drouin one. But, no, one needs to not panic, even when a crisis hits …

[illWill]

16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, I tend to agree.

 

MB was always, always of the philosophy that "you make the playoffs and anything can happen."

 

That means he was inevitably going to operate via improvisational patch-up jobs rather than any real strategic plan or vision.

 

Thank God he is gone

 

I mean, the Habs did make the Cup final after barely making the playoffs....

 

I'll also add that some fans, including myself, view this team purely as entertainment night in and night out. I just want to watch the game and believe we have a chance to win. The more games we play in the playoffs (if any at all) just means more fun nights. 

 

And then you have fans that are adamant that we NEED to tank for X amount of years, and then it will all just magically come together to win a Cup. And if they don't win it all, then it was a failure of a season. 

 

I personally prefer the Bergevin years of mediocrity with a chance to make the playoffs, over getting blown out most nights and waiting for the June draft in November. 

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

I mean, the Habs did make the Cup final after barely making the playoffs....

 

I'll also add that some fans, including myself, view this team purely as entertainment night in and night out. I just want to watch the game and believe we have a chance to win. The more games we play in the playoffs (if any at all) just means more fun nights. 

 

And then you have fans that are adamant that we NEED to tank for X amount of years, and then it will all just magically come together to win a Cup. And if they don't win it all, then it was a failure of a season. 

 

I personally prefer the Bergevin years of mediocrity with a chance to make the playoffs, over getting blown out most nights and waiting for the June draft in November. 

 

 

 

Actually, I've never been a fan of tanking either. I've argued many times on this site that it often takes longer than fans think, and frequently doesn't even work. 

 

But I do think there comes a time when you more or less have to tank. In retrospect, the organization would ideally have recognized that losing your superstar goalie, key defenceman, and best overall C, all in the same summer, with relatively little young talent up and coming, is such a time. 

 

Ultimately my real objection to MB, beyond the fact that he ran the organization like a dinosaur, was over drafting and development. The longer it went on, the more desperate the improvisations became. He absolutely aced it in the summer of 2020, and he absolutely fell on his face in the summer of 2021. Without a strong player development pipeline, that kind of improv act is going to get harder and harder to sustain. It's also one reason why the team was not a playoff team in the three years leading up to the Run of 21 (yes, I know we were gerrymandered in in 2020, but it took a bizarre Covid rigging of the playoff rules to get us there). Those seasons were dreary too. 

 

 

 

[tomh009]

I really think the big gap was in development, not drafting. Yes, Kotkaniemi was a miss, but his last five drafts also got us Caufield, Guhle and Mailloux. And only Kotkaniemi was a top-10 pick. And Sergachev in 2016 was very much a solid pick, unfortunately the Drouin trade did not work out for the Habs--but that trade doesn't make the drafting any worse.

 

Most of the years where people complained about Bergevin's drafting the Habs were picking late in the first round where the odds are poor anyway.

[alfredoh2009]

15 hours ago, illWill said:

 

I mean, the Habs did make the Cup final after barely making the playoffs....

 

I'll also add that some fans, including myself, view this team purely as entertainment night in and night out. I just want to watch the game and believe we have a chance to win. The more games we play in the playoffs (if any at all) just means more fun nights. 

 

And then you have fans that are adamant that we NEED to tank for X amount of years, and then it will all just magically come together to win a Cup. And if they don't win it all, then it was a failure of a season. 

 

I personally prefer the Bergevin years of mediocrity with a chance to make the playoffs, over getting blown out most nights and waiting for the June draft in November. 

 

 

I have a similar opinion. I also like to have balanced discussion on the team where we can articulate for/against views to have some fun in exploring options

[alfredoh2009]

13 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Actually, I've never been a fan of tanking either. I've argued many times on this site that it often takes longer than fans think, and frequently doesn't even work. 

 

But I do think there comes a time when you more or less have to tank. In retrospect, the organization would ideally have recognized that losing your superstar goalie, key defenceman, and best overall C, all in the same summer, with relatively little young talent up and coming, is such a time. 

 

Ultimately my real objection to MB, beyond the fact that he ran the organization like a dinosaur, was over drafting and development. The longer it went on, the more desperate the improvisations became. He absolutely aced it in the summer of 2020, and he absolutely fell on his face in the summer of 2021. Without a strong player development pipeline, that kind of improv act is going to get harder and harder to sustain. It's also one reason why the team was not a playoff team in the three years leading up to the Run of 21 (yes, I know we were gerrymandered in in 2020, but it took a bizarre Covid rigging of the playoff rules to get us there). Those seasons were dreary too. 

 

 

 

well, my recollection of the team’s president role does not align with parts of your opinion, and that of most on the forum.

At the time the Business organization and shareholders where expanding their assets and looking kling for growth in revenue.

they never allowed a reconstruction but since the Gainey years we’re pushing for retooling. When MB started asking for a new mandate to rebuild the team (near the 10 year mark), Molson and the board looked instead to play hardball in resigning MB and terminated him after a disastrous injury filled cup run.

MB was far from perfect, but he iced a squad that provided entertaining games for the fan base for many years.

[GHT120]

4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Molson and the board looked instead to play hardball in resigning MB and terminated him after a disastrous injury filled cup run.

I would suggest they terminated him when his desperate attempts to save the 21/22 season obviously failed and they realized that since he had told Molson he was leaving at the end of the season there was no reason to keep him on and risk him making further asset depleting moves.

[alfredoh2009]

They way I remember it, Molson made him an offer earlier in that season and he declined saying he wanted to wait and see. Later in the season when he came back to check the offer he was told that the organization was looking at its options. Negotiations broke off and he was let go.

Now, mapping that on the on-ice stuff and the total mess after they lost in the finals: that is something I cannot speculate about to be honest 

[GHT120]

9 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

They way I remember it, Molson made him an offer earlier in that season and he declined saying he wanted to wait and see. Later in the season when he came back to check the offer he was told that the organization was looking at its options. Negotiations broke off and he was let go.

Now, mapping that on the on-ice stuff and the total mess after they lost in the finals: that is something I cannot speculate about to be honest 

 

From Pierre LeBrun's interview with MB in The Athletic:
 

Bergevin says Habs owner Geoff Molson approached him with a contract extension right after the team reached the ’21 Cup Final. His contract was expiring a year later.

 

“I decided that for me, it was best to move forward,” Bergevin said. “Time had come. It was good for both of us to move in a different direction. Geoff was very good, very fair. But I told him, ‘Geoff, I’m going to finish my last year that’s left and then I’m going to move on.’ He was good with that. He understood.”

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Since nothing in MB's tenure suggested he understood player development, it's a bloody good thing he wasn't retained and given a mandate to rebuild.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Since nothing in MB's tenure suggested he understood player development, it's a bloody good thing he wasn't retained and given a mandate to rebuild.

that is true. The baby Habs were horribly run and there were so many picks traded that the pipeline was dry

[Commandant]

32 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I would suggest they terminated him when his desperate attempts to save the 21/22 season obviously failed and they realized that since he had told Molson he was leaving at the end of the season there was no reason to keep him on and risk him making further asset depleting moves.

 

All evidence points to this being correct and not some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that was posted by others. 

[hab29RETIRED]

18 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I really think the big gap was in development, not drafting. Yes, Kotkaniemi was a miss, but his last five drafts also got us Caufield, Guhle and Mailloux. And only Kotkaniemi was a top-10 pick. And Sergachev in 2016 was very much a solid pick, unfortunately the Drouin trade did not work out for the Habs--but that trade doesn't make the drafting any worse.

 

Most of the years where people complained about Bergevin's drafting the Habs were picking late in the first round where the odds are poor anyway.

Development was crap. I didn't like the KK pick, but understood the reason. Seeing Brady's brother, I wanted him or Hughes. Issue was you don't draft one of the youngest players in the draft - KK was 17 when drafted, and bring him straight to the NHL. He was not a Crosby or McDavid. He looked like Bambi on skates. If was sheer stupidity bringing not letting him develop on Finland for two more years, or at least one more year. They made the same idiotic mistake with Mete - lower pedigree. But he was not a top 4 , or top two as he was used at times. 
 

the good picks he made were mainly rushed into the NHL and poorly developed or given away for other teams castoffs. On top of that he had his childhood bum buddy coaching the AHL team. It was mind numbing that he didn't fire Lefebve in his first year, but friggin idiotic that it was Lefebve who actually left on his own!!!! 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

On this day, 29 years ago…

 

 

[Helmethead]

11 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

On this day, 29 years ago…

 

 

 

He should've smacked that look off his face and called it a day.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

On this day, 29 years ago…

 

 

 

And this organization has yet to recover