What goes around comes around Carolina pay back Kotkaniemi offer sheet

[GHT120]

7 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

Kotkaniemi has remained on Montreal's reserve list throughout this process which means he's still property of the Canadiens.  They're allowed to talk to their own player even with the offer sheet.  If we're being technical, it's actually Carolina that can't talk to him at this point as he's now a contracted player and no longer a free agent.

Thanks for the clarification

[Peter Puck]

2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Kotkaniemi has remained on Montreal's reserve list throughout this process which means he's still property of the Canadiens.  They're allowed to talk to their own player even with the offer sheet.  If we're being technical, it's actually Carolina that can't talk to him at this point as he's now a contracted player and no longer a free agent.

Thanks, I had misunderstood this point.  But now I am wondering about the news that KK and the Canes have agreed to an extension to be signed in January.  I guess this is illegal but they haven't admitted it has been agreed publicly. 

[dlbalr]

24 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

Thanks, I had misunderstood this point.  But now I am wondering about the news that KK and the Canes have agreed to an extension to be signed in January.  I guess this is illegal but they haven't admitted it has been agreed publicly. 

 

Officially, it can't be finalized but they were within their rights to discuss the parameters of a long-term deal as part of the negotiations before the offer sheet was signed.  If that gets 'filed away' for a few months and then revisited, it's legal.

[hab29RETIRED]

When does the final decision have to be made by?

[Habsfan89]

2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

When does the final decision have to be made by?

5pm today 

[tomh009]

I fully expect that the decision has already been made, and they are just holding off announcing it until just before the deadline.

[GHT120]

15 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I fully expect that the decision has already been made, and they are just holding off announcing it until just before the deadline.

By now I would hope so ... and unlike when Carolina tied up the Habs options to use the picks "at risk" for another offer sheet or a trade, or know what their cap total was if looking at UFAs or trades, this time waiting means absolutely nothing to the Hurricanes.

[hab29RETIRED]

14 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I fully expect that the decision has already been made, and they are just holding off announcing it until just before the deadline.

I figured they’d to that. Just wasn’t sure, exactly what the deadline was. Well will be at Maligne lake, no internet, so probably won’t know until after sunset when I get back to my hotel.

I hope they match, and than think of ways to move other salary.

I think you match, and hope he becomes the guy he has shown he can be. He’s a year older and has another offseason to get stronger and grow into his body. He will be better, the question is will he be a 

2nd line player, with some potential to be a top line guy, or is going to be a 3rd line guy. even if KK is a solid second line guy, we are still a bubble team with a low chance of making the playoffs, unless Romanov and another Dman takes a major step forward.
 

if we don’t match, we are not going to get a viable 2nd line centre by trading the picks we are getting that will give us a better chance of making the playoffs.

 

We could keep the picks, and hope that the canes suck, and the picks become lottery picks in what’s a deep draft - but I expect the picks to be somewhere between 22-32.

 

The more and more I look at our division, and conference, the more I think we are better off doing a quick reset with the next drafts that are supposed Have top end talent and deep.  I would rather keep KK, and get needed cap flexibility to by moving guys that have value like Gallagher for high picks and bad expiring contracts. It’s too bad Price wasn’t picked up by Seattle. I just don’t see us being able to have the stars lineup like last year now that we are back to the normal divisional and playoff format.

 

I didn’t have confidence in this management team, and have even less given the rumours that came out that MB had a deal to acquire Fleury if Price got picked up for a 2nd and 3rd pick, when Chicago got him for practically nothing.

[hab29RETIRED]

46 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

5pm today 

Thanks!

[hab29RETIRED]

18 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

By now I would hope so ... and unlike when Carolina tied up the Habs options to use the picks "at risk" for another offer sheet or a trade, or know what their cap total was if looking at UFAs or trades, this time waiting means absolutely nothing to the Hurricanes.

Yep. Out offer sheet for Aho was pointless and stupid. Timing was dumb. The Canes offer sheet and timing was brilliant. Win-win. Either they get the player they wan, get revenge snd make MB look stupid, given how other GM’s with RFA were making moves with offer sheets in mind, or they simply get revenge by screwing us. On the other hand, given Aho’s play, we allowed them to get Aho under contract for a very reasonable cap hit.

[huzer]

27 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

By now I would hope so ... and unlike when Carolina tied up the Habs options to use the picks "at risk" for another offer sheet or a trade, or know what their cap total was if looking at UFAs or trades, this time waiting means absolutely nothing to the Hurricanes.

Other than from a “fan” standpoint and inquiring minds wanting to know, what incentive is there for the team to reveal their choice until they need to? Zero. From a team management standpoint, revealing their choice on Monday instead of today would have accomplished what? I can tell you what “why was Bergevin in such a hurry to do X? That was a dumb move!”

[dlbalr]

2 hours away...

 

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

Officially, it can't be finalized but they were within their rights to discuss the parameters of a long-term deal as part of the negotiations before the offer sheet was signed.  If that gets 'filed away' for a few months and then revisited, it's legal.

 

Thx for all the clarifications.

 

I was hoping that would be ilegal.

 

However, I still have a feeling their was tampering on the Canes part.  ex:  there is probably a good chance that after the Cup Final when kk returned to Finland - and before the free agency started, that he was in contact with numerous Fins that play for the Canes, and they tell him that Wadell wants him so dont sign with Habs.  However, that would be impossible to prove without having access to kk's phone records and emails. 

[tomh009]

57 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I didn’t have confidence in this management team, and have even less given the rumours that came out that MB had a deal to acquire Fleury if Price got picked up for a 2nd and 3rd pick, when Chicago got him for practically nothing.

As you say, they were only rumours ...

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

57 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I hope they match, and than think of ways to move other salary.

I think you match, and hope he becomes the guy he has shown he can be. He’s a year older and has another offseason to get stronger and grow into his body. He will be better, the question is will he be a 

2nd line player, with some potential to be a top line guy, or is going to be a 3rd line guy. even if KK is a solid second line guy, we are still a bubble team with a low chance of making the playoffs, unless Romanov and another Dman takes a major step forward.
 

if we don’t match, we are not going to get a viable 2nd line centre by trading the picks we are getting that will give us a better chance of making the playoffs.

 

We could keep the picks, and hope that the canes suck, and the picks become lottery picks in what’s a deep draft - but I expect the picks to be somewhere between 22-32.

 

The more and more I look at our division, and conference, the more I think we are better off doing a quick reset with the next drafts that are supposed Have top end talent and deep.  I would rather keep KK, and get needed cap flexibility to by moving guys that have value like Gallagher for high picks and bad expiring contracts. It’s too bad Price wasn’t picked up by Seattle. I just don’t see us being able to have the stars lineup like last year now that we are back to the normal divisional and playoff format.

 

 

I agree, have a very similar opinion.  if they don't match then keep the picks and hope the scouts do a great job. It's supposed to be a great draft year.  Expecting another miracle run after losing Danault and Weber is just not realistic. I am good with a reset.

[Habsfan89]

I don't think I can wait one more hour... Don't you people who live in Montreal have spies🕵🕵 at the Bell Center 🤔

[Habsfan89]

9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, have a very similar opinion.  if they don't match then keep the picks and hope the scouts do a great job. It's supposed to be a great draft year.  Expecting another miracle run after losing Danault and Weber is just not realistic. I am good with a reset.

We can always use the 2 1st round picks to trade up in the draft. Maybe even trade for the first overall pick. 

[tomh009]

19 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

We can always use the 2 1st round picks to trade up in the draft. Maybe even trade for the first overall pick. 

Trade to move up, maybe, but two late picks is not enough to get a top-three pick.

 

Unless, of course, we miss the playoffs and then the picture might look a whole lot different.

[Dalhabs]

3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Trade to move up, maybe, but two late picks is not enough to get a top-three pick.

 

Unless, of course we miss the playoffs and then the picture might look a whole lot different.

What if we trade both 1st rounders for Dvorak, still suck and miss the playoffs and Arzona wins the lottery? 😵

[Habsfan89]

7 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Trade to move up, maybe, but two late picks is not enough to get a top-three pick.

 

Unless, of course, we miss the playoffs and then the picture might look a whole lot different.

I don't see us making the playoffs, I see us picking a where from 9th-15th (bubble) again. So our pick will be a high pick. 

[TurdBurglar]

Wild idea.  Let Carolina have KK.  Use the 1st round pick to package Drouin out for cap space, try to get a 2nd in return.  Offer sheet Hughes in Vancouver for $6m, Vancouver matches, offer sheet Pettersson for $7m-$8m.  Vancouver can’t match, give up 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick the next draft.  
 

Voila!  KK and Drouin out, Pettersson in. Only losing out on a first round pick this year, 2nd and 3rd are from other teams.

 

One can only dream.

[Habsfan89]

4 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

What if we trade both 1st rounders for Dvorak, still suck and miss the playoffs and Arzona wins the lottery? 😵

Arizona will win the lottery based on their own pick they don't need ours 😂

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

What if we trade both 1st rounders for Dvorak, still suck and miss the playoffs and Arzona wins the lottery? 😵

Lottery protect the picks in any trade

 

 

[Peter Puck]

I predict the Habs will release a statement precisely at 5:00 announcing their decision (and any trade if they made one).  I'm now hoping they match.

 

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Trade to move up, maybe, but two late picks is not enough to get a top-three pick.

 

Unless, of course, we miss the playoffs and then the picture might look a whole lot different.

I admire the optimism that makes you believe the habs pick will be late, or even 17th or later ... and I don't know that Carolina is a lock for a late pick ... their defence corps "replaced" Hamilton with Ethan Bear and Tony Deangelo ... and not certain their goaltending is actually as good as last year ... I could see them taking a dip