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Game #21 - November 25, 2022 - Canadiens vs Blackhawks


GHT120
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13 minutes ago, tomh009 said:
53 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

We're starting to see some movement on the 5 on 4 PP which is starting to move a little sharper.  It's clear the 4 on 3 PP isn't anywhere close to that point; I wonder how much time they spend working on it?

Probably not a whole lot -- you really don't get very many of those in games ...


Good points, but a man advantage is a man advantage.  Is there really a different strategy to 4 on 3?  I'd say they are fundamentally the same.  The player with the puck on 1 side needs to move around and the player on the other side needs to basically move in a direction so that a passing lane is opened up so the puck carrier can pass to the open guy and he can shoot.   4 on 3 shouldn't have to be practiced.  They should practice 3 on 3 though.

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7 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Much too early to say, I think. Him turning into a #1 would have very long odds, being a decent backup or maybe a #1B is a more realistic hope. He's been about a .890 goalie in his NHL career, has he found a way to up his game? Coaching, training, mental approach or something else? We don't really have any insight into what might be different this season.

 

But only 7.333 games into his season so far, he may yet prove us all wrong, or flame out quickly.

 

   Yes, 8 games isn't enough but its enough to have the thought to play him more so they can determine if he could be a starter.  When they are rebuilding and aren't actively trying to make the playoffs when would it be a good time to play him more and find that out?  Plus, if Price is in fact done forever what should they speculate in the offseason?  They wont know if they need to sign a starter unless they play Monty more.  

 

My theory on Monty's improvement is that all last year he got shelled by NHL caliber shooters so the experience he got from that is equivalent to 2-3 years of AHL hockey.  Thats the same reason why I don't want to see WiFi sent down, same with Slaf; because they will learn and grow quicker playing at a NHL level.    

 

Also, dont forget that this year Monty has 4 rookie d-men in front of him, and he's still playing really good.  He's made a bunch of big timely saves, which was extremely rare last year and the lack of that was 1 of the biggest reason they finished in last place.  

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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:


Good points, but a man advantage is a man advantage.  Is there really a different strategy to 4 on 3?  I'd say they are fundamentally the same.  The player with the puck on 1 side needs to move around and the player on the other side needs to basically move in a direction so that a passing lane is opened up so the puck carrier can pass to the open guy and he can shoot.   4 on 3 shouldn't have to be practiced.  They should practice 3 on 3 though.

 

They aren't the same though.  The set up for a 4 on 3 is different than the set up for a 5 on 4. 

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Again, loved Matheson's mobility and the nice Petry-like rush to front of net.

Shitty hawks limited Caufield to 1 shot, smart.

Monahan on 55 point pace, awesome.

Dadanov uggg. Just cant finish and seems confidence at zero and I think i have more confidence in Pezzetta's offense.

Kovacevic plays a pretty quiet game (not sure what his fancy-stats look like) and still seems a nice waiver pick-up.

Mixed on Dach's reaction after shootout winner, i get it but could of done without goofy WWF bit.

Poor Guhle & Slafkovski got rocked again, no good!

 

 

https://www.habsworld.net/2022/11/dach-seals-the-ot-win-for-the-habs-over-the-blackhawks/

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Again, loved Matheson's mobility and the nice Petry-like rush to front of net.

Shitty hawks limited Caufield to 1 shot, smart.

Monahan on 55 point pace, awesome.

Dadanov uggg. Just cant finish and seems confidence at zero and I think i have more confidence in Pezzetta's offense.

Kovacevic plays a pretty quiet game (not sure what his fancy-stats look like) and still seems a nice waiver pick-up.

Mixed on Dach's reaction after shootout winner, i get it but could of done without goofy WWF bit.

Poor Guhle & Slafkovski got rocked again, no good!

 

 

https://www.habsworld.net/2022/11/dach-seals-the-ot-win-for-the-habs-over-the-blackhawks/

 

I keep saying to send Slaf down…somehow management refuses to listen to me 🤷‍♂️

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13 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:


Good points, but a man advantage is a man advantage.  Is there really a different strategy to 4 on 3?  I'd say they are fundamentally the same.  The player with the puck on 1 side needs to move around and the player on the other side needs to basically move in a direction so that a passing lane is opened up so the puck carrier can pass to the open guy and he can shoot.   4 on 3 shouldn't have to be practiced.  They should practice 3 on 3 though.

I agree 4-3 is a whole different ballgame.  All 4 attackers should be in better scoring positions.  All players have more ice to cover.  A bad pass or bad shot has a higher chance of exiting the zone, as there’s generally less support in their setup.  

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6 hours ago, DON said:

[…]

Dadanov uggg. Just cant finish and seems confidence at zero and I think i have more confidence in Pezzetta's offense
[…]


I do not believe MSL knows how to get the most out of any 4th liner or struggling forward.

I do not believe Evans, Pezzetta or even Armia will be able to show their worth this season 

 

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47 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Ya. I'm not too sure what he's learning, playing these minutes. 

Fingers crossed that Habs mgmt & development staff keep him on track.  

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40 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not believe MSL knows how to get the most out of any 4th liner or struggling forward.

I do not believe Evans, Pezzetta or even Armia will be able to show their worth this season 

It’s not just St-Louis though, the Habs now have credible player/skills development people, too.

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On 11/26/2022 at 1:13 PM, alfredoh2009 said:


I do not believe MSL knows how to get the most out of any 4th liner or struggling forward.

I do not believe Evans, Pezzetta or even Armia will be able to show their worth this season 

 

 

I’m inclined to think that those guys are, in fact, “showing their worth” under MSL. They’re just not particularly good players. Armia is a plodder who only uses his size once every 10 games; he’s only attractive to plodding coaches who abhor offence and creativity. Pezzetta is a marginal 4th liner who takes dumb penalties and probably never would have seen the NHL if the Habs had not become so terrible. Evans is better than either, though - he might indeed be an example of a guy who has fallen out of favour, but who could be a serviceable 30-point 4th-liner if he had a coach’s trust. The problem he faces is that these Habs have decent depth at C. And that’s another consideration…maybe what he really is, is a guy who looks decent on a team that lack depth at C. 

 

Maybe next season, when Monahan is gone, he will step up a bit.

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41 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I’m inclined to think that those guys are, in fact, “showing their worth” under MSL. They’re just not particularly good players. Armia is a plodder who only uses his size once every 10 games; he’s only attractive to plodding coaches who abhor offence and creativity. Pezzetta is a marginal 4th liner who takes dumb penalties and probably never would have seen the NHL if the Habs had not become so terrible. Evans is better than either, though - he might indeed be an example of a guy who has fallen out of favour, but who could be a serviceable 30-point 4th-liner if he had a coach’s trust. The problem he faces is that these Habs have decent depth at C. And that’s another consideration…maybe what he really is, is a guy who looks decent on a team that lack depth at C. 

 

Maybe next season, when Monahan is gone, he will step up a bit.

 

( 4th liners have a specific role in the NHL, bring energy and hem the other team in their D-zone for a shift or two to change momentum, Habs 4th liners not used like that )

 

===

on you point of depth at center, if the Habs traded Evans, who would play 4C ?

 

I was looking at that scenario, because Evans cap hit is fairly low and would be a great addition to a team that has fire power on the top lines but needs a PK specialist

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Evans has been fine.  I don't see the complaints.  As for a consistent 30 point #4C.... such a player does not exist in the NHL, so I don't know why that is the expectation.  How many teams in the NHL have 10 forwards who get 30 points?  Virtually none. That's what a 4th liner with 30 points means. 

 

As for Pezzetta, Pitlick, etc... they just aren't NHL players.

 

This is a weird critique of St. Louis, that he isn't getting production out of players not talented enough to be in the league.  Meanwhile the actual good players.... Caufield, Dach, Suzuki, Dvorak, Gallagher, even Hoffman, have all seen more production under MSL (some dramatically so) than they did under the last coach.  Seems to me someone is grasping at straws to defend Ducharme again. He just wasn't a good coach.  He might have been a fine human being, but as an NHL head coach, he wasn't good.

 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... on you point of depth at center, if the Habs traded Evans, who would play 4C ?  ...

 

Pitlick, Mysak, Schnarr, Belzile, Richard ... Wideman ... some "body" received back in the trade along with a draft pick ... IMO it matters little.

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54 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 IMO it matters little.

A good defensive centre is valuable, especially cheap back-up if any of centres get hurt/traded (and he slots in on 3rd line).

Evans plays the most of any Hab centres on the PK and $1.7m isnt horrible cost.

 

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

This is a weird critique of St. Louis, that he isn't getting production out of players not talented enough to be in the league.  Meanwhile the actual good players.... Caufield, Dach, Suzuki, Dvorak, Gallagher, even Hoffman, have all seen more production under MSL (some dramatically so) than they did under the last coach.  Seems to me someone is grasping at straws to defend Ducharme again. He just wasn't a good coach.  He might have been a fine human being, but as an NHL head coach, he wasn't good.

 

 

I did not mention DD, if you are referring to that. The comment on the 4th line is that with all the special teams playing so much, whoever is on Evans line sits for a long time. It seems to me the jump on the ice "cold"

If I think back to MSL last season, he seemed to just roll the lines and the 4th line grunts seemed to be more in the games.

 

that's it, that is the extent of my observation.

 

I thought you had me on ignore...

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6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I was looking at that scenario, because Evans cap hit is fairly low and would be a great addition to a team that has fire power on the top lines but needs a PK specialist

I think that describes the Habs spot-on, especially if they trade Evans. So if were to trade Evans and (gasp!) Armia, where would that leave our PK?

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15 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I think that describes the Habs spot-on, especially if they trade Evans. So if were to trade Evans and (gasp!) Armia, where would that leave our PK?

 

the Habs can call up a Belzile or Pitlick or even Mysak to play on the 4th line to block shots. Gignac or Richard may also fill a spot this year. THey could even rotate the AHLers for a week at a time to "evaluate" them like some teams do on "rebuild" seasons.

 

Armia.... on the other hand, would require the Habs to retain salary to entice another team to take him. I have been looking at other team's to find a spot for Armia and there is no place for him the way he is playing.

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I wasn't referring to the fourth line so much as noting that at the moment the Habs' roster is short of penalty-killing-capable forwards. Yes, you could call up Pitlick (who played in that role last season) but that's about it.

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Armia.... on the other hand, would require the Habs to retain salary to entice another team to take him. I have been looking at other team's to find a spot for Armia and there is no place for him the way he is playing.

 

Yup.  Zero points in 10games and 3.4M/year for this year and the next two.  He isn't going anywhere unless there is some kind of major turn around in his play. 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

the Habs can call up a Belzile or Pitlick or even Mysak to play on the 4th line to block shots. Gignac or Richard may also fill a spot this year. THey could even rotate the AHLers for a week at a time to "evaluate" them like some teams do on "rebuild" seasons.

 

Half of those guys don't even kill penalties in the minors and Gignac isn't on an NHL deal.  Mysak should be nowhere near the NHL this season...or next...and probably the one after that; he's a long way away.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

Half of those guys don't even kill penalties in the minors and Gignac isn't on an NHL deal.  Mysak should be nowhere near the NHL this season...or next...and probably the one after that; he's a long way away.


but, looking at what player may be traceable, Evans is about the only one that could interest other teams. 
any AHL plug would do this season. It is a lost season, isn’t it?

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5 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


but, looking at what player may be traceable, Evans is about the only one that could interest other teams. 
any AHL plug would do this season. It is a lost season, isn’t it?

 

Because Evans is young enough that he can be part of this team going forward, he's not a one year rental ala Monahan, Dadonov, or Drouin who will be UFA in July, or a guy like Armia and Hoffman who are quite a bit older than him.

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13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

but, looking at what player may be traceable, Evans is about the only one that could interest other teams. 
any AHL plug would do this season. It is a lost season, isn’t it?

 

You still want to put players in roles where they have a chance at succeeding.  If a spot on the fourth line opens up, they'll want to give Harvey-Pinard a look to see if he's ready for more regular duty.  They might want to try Condotta there as he's a pretty basic player that plays heavy and can kill penalties.  They might want to try Richard there too - that's the one I could see happening. 

 

But if they call someone up who doesn't kill penalties and ask them to kill penalties, it's a confidence-crusher which doesn't do anyone any good.  Realistically, there could be some changes on the fourth line eventually as the Habs might have to take some players back in trades to match money (like Tyler Pitlick last year) that could change the look of it over the next few months.

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