Colin Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) On 6/6/2023 at 6:39 PM, Habsfan89 said: How's it risky pick? He's under contract for 2 more years in Russia then wants to come to the NHL. That works out perfect for us, we're rebuilding and should be coming out of our rebuild by the time he's ready to come in 2 years. It's actually perfect timing for us. If he's there at 5 we can't pass him up. Draft him let him play his contract out then bring him to Montreal. His play, other than offensive, is highly questionable; so bad that apparently he blows the zone before his team even has possession. There’s anticipation, and then there’s…leaving. He also is about as defensive capable as a Maple Leaf defender. Finally, a so-far unsubstantiated rumour admittedly, he’s potentially got some deficiencies in his, um, attitude. 😉 Personally, that type of player doesn’t really interest me. I appreciate sublime skill, but not at the potential risk of the ‘team’ game. And I’ve no interest in seeing an attitude issue wreck chemistry (good riddance to even the thought of Mike Ribeiro). As for the “Russian” aspect, please remember there’s a war going on which is likely to affect many athletes in various deleterious ways. Who knows how long that, and the political ramifications will last. I believe his father passed under mysterious circumstances, and the undertone behind that reporting is that it could have been linked to hockey. Not saying I know anything, because I don’t, but all that has to be measured when making the choice to draft him. Defence and accountability can be taught, yes, but attitude is tougher and politics is well beyond the control of a hockey team. Edited June 8, 2023 by Colin Spelling because I hate typing on an iPad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Colin said: His play, other than offensive, is highly questionable; so bad that apparently he blows the zone before his team even has possession. There’s anticipation, and then there’s…leaving. He also is about as defensive capable as a Maple Leaf defender. Finally, a so-far unsubstantiated rumour admittedly, he’s potentially got some deficiencies in his, um, attitude. 😉 Personally, that type of player doesn’t really interest me. I appreciate sublime skill, but not at the potential risk of the ‘team’ game. And I’ve no interest in seeing an attitude issue wreck chemistry (good riddance to even the thought of Mike Ribeiro). As for the “Russian” aspect, please remember there’s a war going on which is likely to affect many athletes in various deleterious ways. Who knows how long that, and the political ramifications will last. I believe his father passed under mysterious circumstances, and the undertone behind that reporting is that it could have been linked to hockey. Not saying I know anything, because I don’t, but all that has to be measured when making the choice to draft him. Defence and accountability can be taught, yes, but attitude is tougher and politics is well beyond the control of a hockey team. What do we actually No about his attitude as a 17/18 year old? I’d say not much. If he becomes the next Pavel Bure, I’d be pretty pissed if we ended up taking a North American Valeri Bure, or a supposed great power forward like turner Stevenson or Terry Ryan! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 99% of 17 year olds have a bad attitude. Who cares? Hes not gonna be 17 forever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Commandant said: 99% of 17 year olds have a bad attitude. Who cares? Hes not gonna be 17 forever The "magic" that is demanded of scouts is to determine which selfish 17 yr-olds will mature and earn to also play defence, and which will remain "me-first" floaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 57 minutes ago, GHT120 said: The "magic" that is demanded of scouts is to determine which selfish 17 yr-olds will mature and earn to also play defence, and which will remain "me-first" floaters. Well we took a supposed “great kid” in KK. That didn’t turn out to well - his development path was a huge contributor. Galchenyuk was supposed to be a mature kid as well. I just haven’t seen any Joshua Ho-Sang type of reports about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 30 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Well we took a supposed “great kid” in KK. That didn’t turn out to well - his development path was a huge contributor. Galchenyuk was supposed to be a mature kid as well. I just haven’t seen any Joshua Ho-Sang type of reports about him. There are probably obvious outliers, e.g., a kid who is a complete disfunctional cretin, or a kid who is exceptionally dedicated. Scouts should filter for those. But the vast majority are probably somewhere between the two poles, and trying to make big extrapolations out of that seems like a bit of a fool’s errand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: There are probably obvious outliers, e.g., a kid who is a complete disfunctional cretin, or a kid who is exceptionally dedicated. Scouts should filter for those. But the vast majority are probably somewhere between the two poles, and trying to make big extrapolations out of that seems like a bit of a fool’s errand. A kid who is exceptionally driven--like St Louis. Or Xhekaj, for that matter. I'm looking forward to the actual draft so that we can stop arguing about whether X would be a better pick than Y. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I'm looking forward to the actual draft so that we can stop arguing about whether X would be a better pick than Y. Yeah, at that point the discussion will turn to X would have been a better pick than Y... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: A kid who is exceptionally driven--like St Louis. Or Xhekaj, for that matter. I'm looking forward to the actual draft so that we can stop arguing about whether X would be a better pick than Y. 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: Yeah, at that point the discussion will turn to X would have been a better pick than Y... definitely. I've stayed out of these discussions so far. Past years I was all gun-ho going through all kinds of lists and analysis. Any pick except the Russian kid is fine for me. I wand more certainty out of the top-10 pick than Slafkovsky. Dropping down and picking a RD and a extra second would work for me too. Spreading the chances of picking a winner instead of riding on the single horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 7 hours ago, GHT120 said: The "magic" that is demanded of scouts is to determine which selfish 17 yr-olds will mature and earn to also play defence, and which will remain "me-first" floaters. Yakapov-like, u mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 hours ago, dlbalr said: Yeah, at that point the discussion will turn to X would have been a better pick than Y... I've always liked Y's intangibles. X just isn't reliable. I will be furious if Y drops to us and we end up taking X (probably just because of a size bias). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 2 fellas from elite prospects, answering bunch of questions on prospects. They prefer Leonard over Will Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 https://theathletic.com/4562366/2023/06/08/nhl-mock-draft-2023-pronman-wheeler-bultman/ FWIW, athletic folks took 3 Euro's in mock draft 5 Carlsson 31 Otto Stenberg; 5'11" Swedish centre 37 Maxim Stenberb; 6'2 RH Slovac d-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Maxim Strbak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 5 hours ago, tomh009 said: Maxim Strbak! close enough...u got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 hour ago, DON said: close enough...u got it. If the Habs pick him, I predict many spelling challenges on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If the Habs pick him, I predict many spelling challenges on this forum! Not the 1st difficult spelling surname, I still struggle & stumble with Xhekaj every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Have people talked a lot about how Hughes coached Will Smith when he was young? Any chance he'd want to move up at get a kid he knows? Maybe if Mitckov falls and he knows say SJ wants him or something? Not sure it's the best move. Just spitballing predictions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 51 minutes ago, Plutarch said: Have people talked a lot about how Hughes coached Will Smith when he was young? Any chance he'd want to move up at get a kid he knows? Maybe if Mitckov falls and he knows say SJ wants him or something? Not sure it's the best move. Just spitballing predictions Am hoping they already have top 5 ranked, not sure moving from 5th-to 3rd/4th should/will happen. A packaging of 31&37 or package with Flames 1st rd pick by Hughes to a contender (e.g. Tampa has no picks, they have traded away their 2023, 2024, 2025 1st rd picks) who is short of picks to get a prospect or young player, or use to move up in draft for specific kid seems more likely than moving 5th pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 2 hours ago, DON said: Am hoping they already have top 5 ranked, not sure moving from 5th-to 3rd/4th should/will happen. A packaging of 31&37 or package with Flames 1st rd pick by Hughes to a contender (e.g. Tampa has no picks, they have traded away their 2023, 2024, 2025 1st rd picks) who is short of picks to get a prospect or young player, or use to move up in draft for specific kid seems more likely than moving 5th pick. I agree. Just was curious if maybe Hughes would go for a guy he knows. We just don't know his tendencies yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Plutarch said: Have people talked a lot about how Hughes coached Will Smith when he was young? Any chance he'd want to move up at get a kid he knows? Maybe if Mitckov falls and he knows say SJ wants him or something? Not sure it's the best move. Just spitballing predictions If he tries to move up it might, more likely, be to try to get Fantilli or Carlsson ... ***NOT*** predicting it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Plutarch said: I agree. Just was curious if maybe Hughes would go for a guy he knows. We just don't know his tendencies yet. I'm quite sure that the scouting team's input will be the primary driver. They have their revised team in place, and they'll be counting on those guys to know the prospects. Hughes's personal experience might sway the decision in the case of two equal prospects but I don't think he'll be overriding the scouts if there are better options available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 So just for placing names in my head. Both of Fantili and Carlsson would go 1oa in the slafkovsky draft Would Smith be? Mitchkov is 1oa talent but non on-ice hockey issues for using a big pick on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Plutarch said: So just for placing names in my head. Both of Fantili and Carlsson would go 1oa in the slafkovsky draft Would Smith be? Mitchkov is 1oa talent but non on-ice hockey issues for using a big pick on him. Smith is better than Cooley who was challenging for 1OA so yes I think he would have went #1 last year No one is talking Benson who Id like if we dont take Michkov. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Commandant said: No one is talking Benson who Id like if we dont take Michkov. Yes, he seems to bring more all round game than Smith, but is a small winger. If curious or bored, 2011 draft pick value article. https://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf (not sure if more recent ones much different?) 2016 update https://www.statsportsconsulting.com/2016/05/26/1658/?platform=hootsuite https://theathletic.com/1798463/2020/06/12/by-the-numbers-revisiting-the-true-value-of-a-draft-pick/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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