GDT GAME#22 Habs vs Columbus 7PM Wed Nov 29 2023

[hab29RETIRED]

7 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I would rather have Anderson's contract than Campbell's, Anderson can turn it around. 

Yeah I agree. Having said that, I’d want to move him when he does turn it around. He never really has been able to mesh with any line. He is a heat sinking missile that can shoot. But right now he is not scoring or being a physical player. 

[dlbalr]

10 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I was actually thinking about this during the game but hadn’t considered Campbell. Your proposal makes a lot of sense. Oilers could see if they get lucky with Merzlukins for free basically and if it busts then look at a bigger deal.

 

As it turns out, this was the second straight game Edmonton had 3 scouts in Columbus (evidently, they were also keeping an eye on Spencer Martin since Daniil Tarasov is close to returning).

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he’s one guy who’s probably been hurt by Marty trying to make him a better player - he just doesn’t have the hockey IQ. He is what he is. Have to let him be the guy who can only play up and down, where he uses his speed and his shot, can’t pass worth shit , but let him just either shoot or hit guys along the board.  down the wing hits guys on the boards, does his thing, but never really meshes with his linemates. Get him going and than trade his ass out of here!

 

So let him "play by himself" on a line with two players that don't need a third?

 

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he’s one guy who’s probably been hurt by Marty trying to make him a better player - he just doesn’t have the hockey IQ. He is what he is. Have to let him be the guy who can only play up and down, where he uses his speed and his shot, can’t pass worth shit , but let him just either shoot or hit guys along the board.  down the wing hits guys on the boards, does his thing, but never really meshes with his linemates. Get him going and than trade his ass out of here!

 

GMs are not as fickle as fans ... a hot-streak is not, IMO, going to change what it takes to trade Anderson /what you get from trading Anderson (depending on your perspective).

 

His AAV ($5.5M) is PERHAPS not terrible, but how many teams that might have need/use of Anderson can fit him under their cap?   And, while an AAV of $5.5M is PERHAPS not terrible, the term of three more seasons is ... so I don't see his being claimed as likely ... but neither would it bother me if he was ... I see all his separate assets (size, speed, physicality, etc.) but I-M-O they do not combine to form a useful part of any line.

 

THAT said, I think waiving him to Laval may be too extreme ... unless HuGo have a sense that the locker-room has turned on Anderson.

 

[DON]

11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Way too soon to anoint Struble and NHLer let alone a successor to WiFi. 

 

I wouldn’t be in a hurry to move Matheson…any young FW we have are going to need D-men who can move and get them the puck. Guhle will perhaps become that distributor, but he’s not there yet. 

 Yes, not a ton of man games on defense as it is. And you do need some offense from the backend.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

We are getting close to a third of the season being done. Anderson has two points and isn’t contributing in other areas (defensively, physically, creatively). He continues to get prime PP time. 
 

At what point does Marty do something about this? Anderson doesn’t deserve the minutes nor PP time. 
 

Why is he still being given prime minutes? 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 minutes ago, DON said:

 Yes, not a ton of man games on defense as it is. And you do need some offense from the backend.

 

Interesting to note that Barron has generated almost as much offence as Guhle. I find the former an awkward skater so I’ve had trouble taking him totally seriously, but those are promising offensive totals. I can’t believe that’s Guhle will not eventually become a 50-point D-man; he has the tools IMHO.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he’d get picked up. Salary isn’t horrible, and is about market if he scores 20. I think he’s one guy who’s probably been hurt by Marty trying to make him a better player - he just doesn’t have the hockey IQ. He is what he is. Have to let him be the guy who can only play up and down, where he uses his speed and his shot, can’t pass worth shit , but let him just either shoot or hit guys along the board.  down the wing hits guys on the boards, does his thing, but never really meshes with his linemates. Get him going and than trade his ass out of here!

 

I agree that Marty f**ked him up, a bad coaching error on his part. A good-faith, reasonable error, but he misjudged his man.

 

I also agree that Josh should go to the 4th line and be told to forget about offence for now. Concentrate on the fundamentals, including physicality. Once he gets that stuff in order, the offence will come. Basically, they need to take the same approach they’ve taken to building up Slaf with Anderson - the difference being that this is about RE-building a player.

 

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he’d get picked up. Salary isn’t horrible, and is about market if he scores 20. I think he’s one guy who’s probably been hurt by Marty trying to make him a better player - he just doesn’t have the hockey IQ. He is what he is. Have to let him be the guy who can only play up and down, where he uses his speed and his shot, can’t pass worth shit , but let him just either shoot or hit guys along the board.  down the wing hits guys on the boards, does his thing, but never really meshes with his linemates. Get him going and than trade his ass out of here!

 

I tend to think there would indeed be interest in him from some GMs. He’s a respected player, I believe, and a prime target for a “change of scenery.” Waiving him is not a terrible idea.

[DON]

4 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

At what point does Marty do something about this? Anderson doesn’t deserve the minutes nor PP time. 

 Marty is, or he & Burrows are still for it, we must assume. 

And i guess will be interesting to see how much patience the green"ish' coach has before demoting him, or it pays off and Anderson's offense picks up & is labelled a powerhorse again.

[Commandant]

13 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Don't recall the play ... did it start inside the trapezoid ... perhaps that is why it was allowed ... the rule came in to stop Brodeur and others from roaming almost to the corner to play "dump-ins" and defeat the forecheck.

 

You cant play the puck outside the trapezoid even if it starts there.  Its a missed call.

 

It happens though, refs miss trips, high sticks, etc all the time.

[Commandant]

12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Way too soon to anoint Struble and NHLer let alone a successor to WiFi. 

 

I wouldn’t be in a hurry to move Matheson…any young FW we have are going to need D-men who can move and get them the puck. Guhle will perhaps become that distributor, but he’s not there yet. 

 

Wifi has not been near as good this year as he was last year.  Yes its a small sample but struble has been better than hes been this season.

[alfredoh2009]

I liked the speed of the game even if sloppy.

Habs défensemen are very mobile, even the call ups

the team played the type of game I expected of them t hi s season

 

Go Habs Go

[GHT120]

17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Wifi has not been near as good this year as he was last year.  Yes its a small sample but struble has been better than hes been this season.

Last year there were ZERO expectations, from fans or other teams.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

26 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Wifi has not been near as good this year as he was last year.  Yes its a small sample but struble has been better than hes been this season.

 

I'm sure you're right, but we also need to be careful about moving too quickly onto the next shiny new thing. It's quite common for second-year players to regress. Some combination of complacency, heightened expectations, and other teams being ready for them seems to make this a regular occurrence. If it's happened to WFi it could just as easily happen to Struble.

 

From my amateur "eye test" WiFi is a player with significantly higher ceiling than Struble. Struble seems like he could become a reliable, physical bottom-pairing guy. WiFi may be only that - with fighting skills added - but he also has that booming shot, what-the-hell self-confidence, and that desire to make impactful plays that could see him become more than that.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

So let him "play by himself" on a line with two players that don't need a third?

 

 

GMs are not as fickle as fans ... a hot-streak is not, IMO, going to change what it takes to trade Anderson /what you get from trading Anderson (depending on your perspective).

 

His AAV ($5.5M) is PERHAPS not terrible, but how many teams that might have need/use of Anderson can fit him under their cap?   And, while an AAV of $5.5M is PERHAPS not terrible, the term of three more seasons is ... so I don't see his being claimed as likely ... but neither would it bother me if he was ... I see all his separate assets (size, speed, physicality, etc.) but I-M-O they do not combine to form a useful part of any line.

 

THAT said, I think waiving him to Laval may be too extreme ... unless HuGo have a sense that the locker-room has turned on Anderson.

 

When I said it wasn’t terrible, it was in response to the posting of trading him for Campbell. That is a horrible contract the day it was signed. When MB signed Anderson to his current deal, at that time I had posted I hated the deal - it’s not much different than when he handed Drouin a long term deal where he doubled the salary for a guy with no track record for consistency.

 

If Anderson gets back to scoring 20 goals, I still think he is overpaying for what he brings and lacks, but it’s an over pay by about $1 to $1.5m for his production. Some GM’s (like MB), would be willing to pay that premium for the size fetish most have.

Campbell on the other hand is a horrible choice as a starter, and even as a backup I wouldn’t have been willing to give him more than $2m given his inconsistency back when Edmonton signed him. But then I probably in the minority, because I also think Allen is overpaid. He’s not overpaid as an NHL starter (which is what he was expected to be with Price out), but I just don’t think he’s a starter, for the same reasons I don’t like Campbell.

[Commandant]

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sure you're right, but we also need to be careful about moving too quickly onto the next shiny new thing. It's quite common for second-year players to regress. Some combination of complacency, heightened expectations, and other teams being ready for them seems to make this a regular occurrence. If it's happened to WFi it could just as easily happen to Struble.

 

From my amateur "eye test" WiFi is a player with significantly higher ceiling than Struble. Struble seems like he could become a reliable, physical bottom-pairing guy. WiFi may be only that - with fighting skills added - but he also has that booming shot, what-the-hell self-confidence, and that desire to make impactful plays that could see him become more than that.

 

I didnt say to trade him.  I just think he may need to re earn his spot and if Struble continues to play like this, Id keep him with the big club and send Xhekaj to Laval when he is healthy.

 

Nothing wrong with letting competition happen and not assuming who the better player is.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

23 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sure you're right, but we also need to be careful about moving too quickly onto the next shiny new thing. It's quite common for second-year players to regress. Some combination of complacency, heightened expectations, and other teams being ready for them seems to make this a regular occurrence. If it's happened to WFi it could just as easily happen to Struble.

 

From my amateur "eye test" WiFi is a player with significantly higher ceiling than Struble. Struble seems like he could become a reliable, physical bottom-pairing guy. WiFi may be only that - with fighting skills added - but he also has that booming shot, what-the-hell self-confidence, and that desire to make impactful plays that could see him become more than that.

 

Good post, it is very common for 2nd year players to regress a bit. I definitely think WiFi has a higher ceiling than many here think. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sure you're right, but we also need to be careful about moving too quickly onto the next shiny new thing. It's quite common for second-year players to regress. Some combination of complacency, heightened expectations, and other teams being ready for them seems to make this a regular occurrence. If it's happened to WFi it could just as easily happen to Struble.

 

From my amateur "eye test" WiFi is a player with significantly higher ceiling than Struble. Struble seems like he could become a reliable, physical bottom-pairing guy. WiFi may be only that - with fighting skills added - but he also has that booming shot, what-the-hell self-confidence, and that desire to make impactful plays that could see him become more than that.

I agree with what you say about Xhekaj having a higher ceiling and he should continue to be developed. Boy oh boy if he can develop that shot…
 

I also think that Struble is far ahead of Xhekaj in basic defensive competence - with the large disclaimer that I’ve only watched Struble for four games!

 

I like @Commandant suggestion of starting Xhekaj in Laval. He needs to hone fundamentals IMO

[alfredoh2009]

I would send down Harris to Laval before Xhekaj. Harris has the higher ceiling and he also needs to improve his offensive skills and his overall confidence. He needs to play top minutes in all situations.

Xhekaj and Strubble are interchangeable 3rd LDs

[Commandant]

54 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would send down Harris to Laval before Xhekaj. Harris has the higher ceiling and he also needs to improve his offensive skills and his overall confidence. He needs to play top minutes in all situations.

Xhekaj and Strubble are interchangeable 3rd LDs

 

Harris is beyond Laval.  His advanced stats at the NHL level show that when healthy hes a borderline top 4 dman and much better than both xhekaj and struble.  Yes he plays a different style but there is nothing for him to learn in the AHL.

[tomh009]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

Wifi has not been near as good this year as he was last year.  Yes its a small sample but struble has been better than hes been this season.

It's now been a while since I've seen him play this season, but I seem to recall that he played against somewhat tougher opposition this year than last year. Or was that just my imagination?

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I like @Commandant suggestion of starting Xhekaj in Laval. He needs to hone fundamentals IMO

 

ideally with an exhausting number of minutes (deliberate exaggeration) ... closer to 20(+) than his average of 13:24 5-on-5 

[DON]

Yaaaa, got feeling is the start of winning streak.

10 Thoughts: Ending The Road Trip On A Winning Note – HabsWorld.net

 

1st Star: Mike Matheson 

Stats: 2 assists, +1 rating, 3 blocks, 23:17 TOI

2nd Star: Alex Newhook – 

Stats: 1 goal, +1 rating, 2 shots, 2 hits, 14:52 TOI

3rd Star: Joel Armia 

Stats: 1 goal, +2 rating, 3 shots, 16:26 TOI

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I also think that Struble is far ahead of Xhekaj in basic defensive competence - with the large disclaimer that I’ve only watched Struble for four games!

 

 

 

Far ahead? I think it's way too early to say that, last night Struble may a really bad decision to pinch/play the body which resulted in a 2 on 1 that should have been a goal. I certainly think there is a lot of potential there but as CC said, let's not get too excited about the shiny new toy. 

[hab29RETIRED]

16 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Far ahead? I think it's way too early to say that, last night Struble may a really bad decision to pinch/play the body which resulted in a 2 on 1 that should have been a goal. I certainly think there is a lot of potential there but as CC said, let's not get too excited about the shiny new toy. 

I really don’t get the excitement over “shiny new players” - particularly ones that are complementary role players. 
 

We will probably see ups/downs from young players for the first 2-4 seasons, until we see some consistency. New players often do better from a combination of adrenaline and being unfamiliar to the opposition. The test is are they able to maintain their level of play over time, and adjust to the opposition, once the opposition start game planning to their tendencies.

 

Despite some surprising good play from our young D, I didn’t see us as a playoff or even bubble team this year, and probably won’t be next year as well - unless Reinbacher and Hutson make a huge impact and Dach, Slafkovsky, Roy and newhook are major contributors.

 

What I do want to see is continual progress year over year and improved consistency. I’ve got new issues with sending Wifi down, so he can play more minutes and work on improving his game in Laval, but I wouldn’t send him down because Steuben had a few good debut games.

 

what concerns me more is the lacke of consistency from Suzuki and Caufield’s 5-5 production 

[BCHabnut]

All these Monty to edm rumors bug me. I don't know why, but I've always liked him. It would kill me to see him become a Thomas or Markstrom.