GDT Game 31 Habs at Winnipeg Mon Dec 18 7:30pm

[Sir_Boagalott]

26 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

At first glance, I thought the Anderson goal looked like a kick but it wasn't.

 

The way they ruled the Dvorak goal, they found conclusive evidence.  The ref said that the call on the ice was confirmed, not upheld (or stands) which is the terminology when it's still inconclusive. 

 

On Anderson's goal I had the same 1st impression and figured they would challenge it.   I didn't get a good look at the replay to tell if he did kick it or not.   

 

On the 2nd goal I think the ref might have gotten the wording wrong because I didn't definitively see him touch it with his stick.   

 

26 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Yeah I didn’t think he touched the puck but there is no way that I could say so definitively. 
 

Habs played a decent period 

 

 

Ya, it was hard to say either way but I didnt have the impression that he touched the puck.  It seemed like on every angle but 1 somebody was in the way so it wasn't possible to see the puck.  The 1 angle where someone wasn't in the way didn't exactly show him touch it.  It seemed like it was a goal they could easily take back.

 

 

 

[tomh009]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Ya, it was hard to say either way but I didnt have the impression that he touched the puck.  It seemed like on every angle but 1 somebody was in the way so it wasn't possible to see the puck.  The 1 angle where someone wasn't in the way didn't exactly show him touch it.  It seemed like it was a goal they could easily take back.

Looking at the replay on nhl.com (many times!) the camera above the goal seems to have the best angle. It sure looks like he touches the puck with his stick and the puck changes direction somewhat.

 

But I don't know which replay the refs were looking at or what they saw.

[Sir_Boagalott]

7 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Looking at the replay on nhl.com (many times!) the camera above the goal seems to have the best angle. It sure looks like he touches the puck with his stick and the puck changes direction somewhat.

 

But I don't know which replay the refs were looking at or what they saw.

 

Thats funny, because I was just thinking that they didn't show the angle from above the goal line.  That angle is close enough that it probably does reveal what happened.  

 

Like you say, the puck seemed to speed up and start spinning more, so somebody touched it.  

 

From seeing goal reviews in other games I've definitely seen that the NHL has at least 1 angle (possibly more) that the networks don't have access to.

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Jets owned that third period but Habs get two points. 
 

Barron’s brother was a pain around the net so I'm happy Justin scored the OT winner 

[GHT120]

18 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Looking at the replay on nhl.com (many times!) the camera above the goal seems to have the best angle.

 

11 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Thats funny, because I was just thinking that they didn't show the angle from above the goal line.  That angle is close enough that it probably does reveal what happened.  

 

When the question is whether a puck touched a stick or bounced over it an overhead shot would seem like the the worst possible angle ... unless there is an extremely obvious change in direction by the puck that could ONLY happen by a stick touching it, the puck passing over top of, or lightly touching, the stick would look pretty much identical.

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

When the question is whether a puck touched a stick or bounced over it an overhead shot would seem like the the worst possible angle ... unless there is an extremely obvious change in direction by the puck that could ONLY happen by a stick touching it, the puck passing over top of, or lightly touching, the stick would look pretty much identical.

 

I believe you have that backwards.   The phenomenon that you are describing is when the puck is up in the air and the camera isn't directly above.  ex:  if the puck is up in the air near the goal line, if the camera is a distance back, the puck could like like it was over the goal line.  However, a camera above the goal line would reveal that the puck is not over the line.  

 

Besides, in this situation Anderson's stick just needs to be near the puck because as long as it was in the vicinity of the puck the NHL cannot overturn the refs call on the ice that he touched it.  i.e. they need definitive proof that he didn't touch vs verified proof that he did.

[alfredoh2009]

13 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

[…]

Go Habs Go! I hope Anderson continues building his confidence up, that Slaf continues showing consistency, and that Allen gets more goal support.

 

I am à happy fan ! 
when I did my season’s prediction I was counting on the Habs winning most OTs and so far so good

 

Go Habs Go!

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am à happy fan ! 
when I did my season’s prediction I was counting on the Habs winning most OTs and so far so good

They had very good movement on the PP in OT, and got the defenders to collapse close to the goal, allowing Barron to move all the way to the hashmarks for the shots.

[Helmethead]

Our D keeps scoring...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 minutes ago, Helmethead said:

Our D keeps scoring...

 

That will be the tale of the coming decade

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That will be the tale of the coming decade

 

I agree, saw an article the other day that said the Habs defense was 3rd in goals in the NHL with 23 I think  and there is still Lane Hutson, Reinbacher etc on the horizon. It's a mobile group and obviously St. Louis encourages them to jump up in the play.  Just need to build up the forward group and this will be a really fun team to watch. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

This was the article I was referring to.  They are actually 2nd in defense scoring. 

 

Jack Todd: Canadiens' sparkling young defence an encouraging sign | Montreal Gazette

[Commandant]

15 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, saw an article the other day that said the Habs defense was 3rd in goals in the NHL with 23 I think  and there is still Lane Hutson, Reinbacher etc on the horizon. It's a mobile group and obviously St. Louis encourages them to jump up in the play.  Just need to build up the forward group and this will be a really fun team to watch. 

 

Absolutely.

 

Points from the defence and the mobility and transition ability that they bring will be great.  No doubt.

 

We still need a couple big scorers up front.  

 

One of the issues with relying on the d to score is that they have a lower shooting percentage than forwards (cause typically they shoot from farther away) and that can lead to more hot and cold streaks.

 

As we saw with a team that relied on a guy like Pacioretty as the main source of goals, a 10 day cold streak in the playoffs means the offence dries up and you go home.

 

So the D is a great start cause that can take over if the forwards get cold but you want the forwards too for when the d isnt working.  And a 1a/1b of suzuki/dach will work for that too, one line gets hot when the other is cold.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

23 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Absolutely.

 

Points from the defence and the mobility and transition ability that they bring will be great.  No doubt.

 

We still need a couple big scorers up front.  

 

One of the issues with relying on the d to score is that they have a lower shooting percentage than forwards (cause typically they shoot from farther away) and that can lead to more hot and cold streaks.

 

As we saw with a team that relied on a guy like Pacioretty as the main source of goals, a 10 day cold streak in the playoffs means the offence dries up and you go home.

 

So the D is a great start cause that can take over if the forwards get cold but you want the forwards too for when the d isnt working.  And a 1a/1b of suzuki/dach will work for that too, one line gets hot when the other is cold.

 

 

 

Do you think we need "big scorers?" Or could we affix a "roll four lines" FW unit to a crazily dynamic blueline corps and win that way? I mean...we're 2nd overall in D scoring and only Mattheson is in his prime (!). The sky really does seem to be the limit for the Habs' D in the coming seasons.

 

This would assume, of course, that we continue to get impact netminding as the defencemen round into form.

[Commandant]

9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Do you think we need "big scorers?" Or could we affix a "roll four lines" FW unit to a crazily dynamic blueline corps and win that way? I mean...we're 2nd overall in D scoring and only Mattheson is in his prime (!). The sky really does seem to be the limit for the Habs' D in the coming seasons.

 

This would assume, of course, that we continue to get impact netminding as the defencemen round into form.

 

The first of the two teams i look at (and throw up a little in my mouth with) is the 2011 to present Bruins, who had the strong blueline, strong goaltending and their forwards were in the list of very good but not great.  I mean Bergeron was obviously an outstanding defensive forward, but there was no one there who was putting up 50 goals or 100 points seasons.  Obviously Marchand and Pastranak get into the very good conversation too.  They don't match what Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, Auston Matthews, Patrick Kane, and others have been doing over that time period though. 

 

The other is St. Louis.  They had the well-rounded offensive group, and their best forward was again a two-way beast in Ryan O'Reilly. 

 

Then look at how invaluable Philip Danault was in our own run to the cup final, and what him or plekanec did against the opposition's top forwards in nearly every playoff series we've won in the last 20 or so years.

 

So i don't think you need that 100 point forward, but if you want to do it without them, the elite shutdown centre should at the very least be part of it. 

[GHT120]

15 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I believe you have that backwards.   The phenomenon that you are describing is when the puck is up in the air and the camera isn't directly above.  ex:  if the puck is up in the air near the goal line, if the camera is a distance back, the puck could like like it was over the goal line.  However, a camera above the goal line would reveal that the puck is not over the line.  

The question was not whether the puck was over the line but whether the puck ever touched a stick after being swatted.

 

[DON]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Do you think we need "big scorers?"

Of course they do, just has been 34 years since had even 'one' top scoring forward and you just forget what it was like.

Suzuki is tied for 56th in scoring race (he finished tied for 70th in scoring last season), seems obvious they need more skill in top six, to me anyways.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, DON said:

Of course they do, just has been 34 years since had even 'one' top scoring forward and you just forget what it was like.

Suzuki is tied for 56th in scoring race (he finished tied for 70th in scoring last season), seems obvious they need more skill in top six, to me anyways.

 

I would agree, there are only a few teams below them in goals scored and that's with one of the top scoring defenses. It's too bad we didn't get to see what kind of impact Dach would have had. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, saw an article the other day that said the Habs defense was 3rd in goals in the NHL with 23 I think  and there is still Lane Hutson, Reinbacher etc on the horizon. It's a mobile group and obviously St. Louis encourages them to jump up in the play.  Just need to build up the forward group and this will be a really fun team to watch. 

 

Yep, and I saw something similar that said they were 2nd and 30% of their Goals are from dmen.  I agree that # will go up and I think those 2 dmen you mentioned that aren't on the Habs yet might get 70+ pts/yr.  Hutson could be their 2nd highest scorer after Cole and be 1 of their highest in points too.  Mailloux could possibly get 50+ pts as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

5 hours ago, DON said:

Of course they do, just has been 34 years since had even 'one' top scoring forward and you just forget what it was like.

Suzuki is tied for 56th in scoring race (he finished tied for 70th in scoring last season), seems obvious they need more skill in top six, to me anyways.

 

We need more scorers, a better FW unit overall, certainly. But what I was asking was whether we *need* a couple of heavy-duty all-stars, or whether we could win without that, rolling four good lines instead. Commandant replied by suggesting that, maybe so, but it would take a serious shutdown C at the very least. 

 

Now if you’re saying that we WANT some elite scorers, well - hell yes.

[dlbalr]

23 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

On the 2nd goal I think the ref might have gotten the wording wrong because I didn't definitively see him touch it with his stick.  

 

From the league, the ruling was indeed a confirmation, not an upholding of the call.  I still don't see how they could say that definitively.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/situation-room/montreal-canadiens-winnipeg-jets-situation-room-december-18

[Sir_Boagalott]

Just now, dlbalr said:

 

From the league, the ruling was indeed a confirmation, not an upholding of the call.  I still don't see how they could say that definitively.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/situation-room/montreal-canadiens-winnipeg-jets-situation-room-december-18

 

I don't either, but there must be a camera angle from above the goal line that shows it off the to the side.  Like I said in another reply, to disallow it they would need to have an angle that showed his stick was nowhere near the puck, when his stick was unarguably in the vicinity of the puck.    

 

I attempted to check Anderson's goal as well but I could only find the 1 angle of that goal.  When I saw that goal I thought he kicked it and I haven't seen an angle that shows that he didn't.  I'm wondering if the Jets Coach might have figured it was too close to review and if it was lost they'd get a penalty and the Habs could score a PPG and they'd be down by 2 and for that reason they decided not to review it.  Without seeing another angle of that goal I do believe that he did kick it in.

 

Either way, I still think it's wild that the Habs had 2 questionable goals allowed and won in OT 3-2.

[BCHabnut]

38 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

We need more scorers, a better FW unit overall, certainly. But what I was asking was whether we *need* a couple of heavy-duty all-stars, or whether we could win without that, rolling four good lines instead. Commandant replied by suggesting that, maybe so, but it would take a serious shutdown C at the very least. 

 

Now if you’re saying that we WANT some elite scorers, well - hell yes.

LA, Las Vegas are 2 other teams which won with very good forwards. But no superstar 

[Sir_Boagalott]

I'm against having elite scorers too because they command crazy contracts that eat up the Cap and make it hard if not outright impossible to ice a complete team that is highly competitive.  IMO, it is always better to have a well rounded team and roll 4 lines that are dangerous and can score from anywhere.  When a team is complete in that manner they don't necessarily need elite Goaltending to win the Cup.  Thats another common belief that I think is a myth.

 

 

 

 

[Commandant]

5 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

LA, Las Vegas are 2 other teams which won with very good forwards. But no superstar 

 

With LA, absolutely.  Again though we see the Selke Calibre centre in Anze Kopitar though.  So once again the substitute for the superstar, is a guy who can erase the other team's best player.

 

Vegas has Marc Stone, who is probably the best defensive winger in the NHL and a selke finalist.  Also Eichel to me is just below that level and with 36 points in 32 games so far this season, might just have taken that jump last year in the playoffs after being just short of it on a terrible Buffalo team, and then battling the neck injury.  Hes settling in now and may be that superstar.