Trade Jake Allen to NJD

[Sir_Boagalott]

 

2 hours ago, habscout said:

Good to see Montreal traded Allen for anything at all. I've never been a fan of his, and his time was overdue to leave.  Now Montreal will get more opportunities to see what they have in Primeau as their backup.

 

I tend to agree, although I did think he was a decent backup, but that is all he was.  He is unable to consistently play day to day for whatever reason. 

 

I always viewed Allen's contract as 1 of Hughes' 1st mistakes and this trade tends to back my opinion up.  Like stated this trade is the 1st retention spot regarding a player Hughes signed.  The fact he was traded and used a retention spot tends to suggest that it wasn't a good contract signing.

 

 

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

They had almost zero chance to move him without retention or taking back a bad contract. I think Hughes did the best he could and it was a good decision. 

 

Yes, it is good that the 3 goalie tandem has ended but it would be better if the Habs weren't using 2 retention spots for next year.  I would have preferred him taking a bad contract back that ended this summer because the Habs still have too many bad MB contracts that go into next year.  The retention from this trade will make it harder for Hughes to move MB's bad contracts.  With 2 retention spots used up Hughes might only be able to move 1 of them - and I hope it is Dvo.

 

 

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I just read that report about this season and next before I posted 💩

 

Much tougher to play half the games next season only - I’m not so confident anymore 

 

I was confused why you made your original comment.  When I saw the stipulation I figured there would be no chance of the pick increasing to a 2nd.  It seems like it's basically there to give the false impression there could be more.

 

 

[hockeyrealist]

Not impressed when looking at when he was signed, for how much  and how long, to now moving him with retention for a nothing pick.

 

Feels like this type of trade could have been done a month or two ago, if not more.

Tells me Habs mgmt caved, took whatever they could and did not stick to their guns as is often reported.

 

Allen was brought in to play 20 games/season behind CP.  He may not be playing behind CP, but it wasn’t  stopping Monty from playing 40.  Primeau has proven he can’t handle the other 40 so having him play 20, Allen play 20 was a way to potentially bring Primeau along. That hasn’t lasted a season, Primeau has shown no more reason to believe and now we are stuck with him possibly playing 30 games next season? Ugh.

This team can’t be rebuilding much longer, next season shouldn’t be about watching Primeau suck and being afraid to play him. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

17 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Not impressed when looking at when he was signed, for how much  and how long, to now moving him with retention for a nothing pick.

 

Feels like this type of trade could have been done a month or two ago, if not more.

Tells me Habs mgmt caved, took whatever they could and did not stick to their guns as is often reported.

 

 

When Allen was signed to an extension there was a lot of uncertainty in the Habs goaltending situation and the extension was looked upon favourably by most. I think Hughes did the best he could as far as a return goes. The space used up by the cap retention is not needed badly next year and was the only way to get any sort of return. 

[Neech]

 

10 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

Not impressed when looking at when he was signed, for how much  and how long, to now moving him with retention for a nothing pick.

 

Feels like this type of trade could have been done a month or two ago, if not more.

Tells me Habs mgmt caved, took whatever they could and did not stick to their guns as is often reported.

 

 

Allen's deal did look bad before it kicked in, I hope Kent doesn't have more of those. Considering his poor numbers, I don't think there was ever more value available than a 3rd, which isn't much but is better than a 'nothing' pick. If anything, I think this deal is more the case of Jersey 'caving' than us.

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

10 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

When Allen was signed to an extension there was a lot of uncertainty in the Habs goaltending situation and the extension was looked upon favourably by most. I think Hughes did the best he could as far as a return goes. The space used up by the cap retention is not needed badly next year and was the only way to get any sort of return. 

 

Indeed. Monty was an unproven commodity and Primeau was nothing. You don’t facilitate a rebuild by having your team get shelled night after night; young D need to feel that not every mistake equals a goal. So I think there is some “retconning” going on regarding the Allen deal, perhaps reflecting the Tanquiste mentality that it’s just great to lose every game 8-1. 🤷‍♂️ Anyhow, true to form Hughes did nothing to jeopardize our Cup window so even if the contract was bad, no harm done.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Indeed. Monty was an unproven commodity and Primeau was nothing. You don’t facilitate a rebuild by having your team get shelled night after night; young D need to feel that not every mistake equals a goal. So I think there is some “retconning” going on regarding the Allen deal, perhaps reflecting the Tanquiste mentality that it’s just great to lose every game 8-1. 🤷‍♂️ Anyhow, true to form Hughes did nothing to jeopardize our Cup window so even if the contract was bad, no harm done.

Agreed ... the contract is only "bad" in retrospect because Montembeault emerged as an NHL goalie, otherwise not re-signing Allen would have been a disaster ... although we likely would have gotten Bedard.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

13 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Agreed ... the contract is only "bad" in retrospect because Montembeault emerged as an NHL goalie, otherwise not re-signing Allen would have been a disaster ... 

 

Exactly, at the time Price was headed to LTIR and Monty was coming off a pretty mediocre first year with the Habs. Hughes doesn't have a crystal ball, so a 2 year contract wasn't a bad thing.  It's these 5 and 6 year contracts that can really come back to bite you (ie Gallagher) if you make a mistake. 

[alfredoh2009]

18 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

Not impressed when looking at when he was signed, for how much  and how long, to now moving him with retention for a nothing pick.

 

Feels like this type of trade could have been done a month or two ago, if not more.

Tells me Habs mgmt caved, took whatever they could and did not stick to their guns as is often reported.

 

Allen was brought in to play 20 games/season behind CP.  He may not be playing behind CP, but it wasn’t  stopping Monty from playing 40.  Primeau has proven he can’t handle the other 40 so having him play 20, Allen play 20 was a way to potentially bring Primeau along. That hasn’t lasted a season, Primeau has shown no more reason to believe and now we are stuck with him possibly playing 30 games next season? Ugh.

This team can’t be rebuilding much longer, next season shouldn’t be about watching Primeau suck and being afraid to play him. 

 

I disagree. I have been unhappy with some decisions by HughGort, but this trade was fair. Allen has not played well most of the season, and his trade value has been declining for a few months now.

Yes, in retrospect, the load that Allen has carried has not been to his advantage. He is a career back up that crumbles when he plays too often, but he aslo needs to play regularly to find his rhythm.  For the past tow season, Allen has not had that, in addition to playing behind a bunch of unproved defensemen.

 

HughGort got a decent return given the circumstances.

 

Now, as far a Primeau goes. I hope that he emerges like MOntembeault did, once he gains in experience. He is just starting and at this point in his career has has as much promise and opportunity to establish himself as Montembeault had. I have faith in the future.

 

[tomh009]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Now, as far a Primeau goes. I hope that he emerges like MOntembeault did, once he gains in experience. He is just starting and at this point in his career has has as much promise and opportunity to establish himself as Montembeault had. I have faith in the future.

We'll see what Primeau can do. This season he has been far better than the last two--I was ready to write him off after those--but it really is a small sample size. We'll have a better idea after next season.

[alfredoh2009]

23 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

We'll see what Primeau can do. This season he has been far better than the last two--I was ready to write him off after those--but it really is a small sample size. We'll have a better idea after next season.

 

There is more positive than negative with Primeau. He can play at a good level, but his consistency is not there.

He is like Price a positioning type of goalie = relying on having his angles covered; he is not like Montembeault (or Dobes) who will box-out or react to shots instead of just staying still.

 

That's the best way I can put it, I hope it makes sense.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I never believed in Primeau, but he has earned this chance based on major improvement this season. It’s up to him to build on that.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I never believed in Primeau, but he has earned this chance based on major improvement this season. It’s up to him to build on that.

 

I am not a big believer either BUT at least now he will get a legitimate chance to show what he can do. He has shown flashes of being good. 

[DON]

We will see how he does with more regular starts for the next month anyways.

[GHT120]

6 minutes ago, DON said:

We will see how he does with more regular starts for the next month anyways.

Personally, I would rotate them ... important to find out whether They can plan on Primeau as the backup for next season or need to find an inexpensive veteran for 24/25.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Just now, GHT120 said:

Personally, I would rotate them ... important to find out whether They can plan on Primeau as the backup for next season or need to find an inexpensive veteran for 24/25.

 

I wouldn’t go with a strict rotation, but your basic thought here seems valid.

 

The other side of it is, there always seem to be veteran backups floating around, even after the season starts. So if Primeau falters we can probably still plug someone into the hole.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Personally, I would rotate them ... important to find out whether They can plan on Primeau as the backup for next season or need to find an inexpensive veteran for 24/25.

 

That's what I would do, give them an equal number of starts. Monty deserves to play but we also need to find out what Primeau can do. 

[GHT120]

17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I wouldn’t go with a strict rotation, but your basic thought here seems valid.

 

The other side of it is, there always seem to be veteran backups floating around, even after the season starts. So if Primeau falters we can probably still plug someone into the hole.

 

My concern is that at that point you are taking "what's left over" ... if the Habs are going to take a step along the rebuild timeline (I'm not expecting playoffs but much closer) they need someone who can take on close to 30 games.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I agree that the Habs should give Primeau about 40% of the games. Unless he just gets destroyed out there. 
 

HuGo needs to find out what Primeau has in him. Internal competition is close at hand so let’s see what Primeau can do with regular rotation 

[dlbalr]

14 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

He is like Price a positioning type of goalie = relying on having his angles covered; he is not like Montembeault (or Dobes) who will box-out or react to shots instead of just staying still.

 

I see it the exact opposite way.  Technique is one of his problem spots and I find him more of a react type of goalie than one who's always in the right spot position-wise.  That's part of the reason that consistency has largely eluded him as he doesn't have the base fundamentals and thus his success is dependent on making more of the scramble type of saves.  He's not as aggressive as Dobes, mind you (few are though).

[alfredoh2009]

10 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I see it the exact opposite way.  Technique is one of his problem spots and I find him more of a react type of goalie than one who's always in the right spot position-wise.  That's part of the reason that consistency has largely eluded him as he doesn't have the base fundamentals and thus his success is dependent on making more of the scramble type of saves.  He's not as aggressive as Dobes, mind you (few are though).

 

maybe I have not paid attention lately, but when he was drafted and his first seasons his style was compared to Price. I am pretty sure of that, I even remember that during rookie camp I would look at his play to see if the comparisons were founded.

 

I know that they worked with Price to rely less on his reflexes and to be more reactive/athletic. Maybe that change was made to Primeau earlier in his career and he is more like you mention now.

 

===

and yes, Dobes is very aggressive. It makes me laugh when he knocks out the net from its mooring after pushing hard to go side to side. I have never seen a goalie do it so often

[tomh009]

Interesting comments on Allen from Montembeault and Primeau on Arpon Basu's weekly notebook on the Athletic. It seems that Allen was spending more time mentoring Montembeault as opposed to Primeau, whether because of perceived potential or because Montembeault was more receptive.

 

Quote

For Montembeault, losing Allen meant losing a mentor, a support system, someone who believed in him and pumped his tires every chance he got. When Allen got traded Friday, Montembeault sent him a long text message thanking him for everything he did for him, and he got one back telling him to keep pushing and that he deserves this opportunity to be the unquestioned No. 1 goalie.

 

“He was always supporting me,” Montembeault said, “and he was one of the best teammates I ever had.”

 

For Primeau, however, while Allen had the same attributes and value to him as a teammate, Allen in some ways did the opposite for his career. While Montembeault had Allen to lean on, to Primeau, he was a roadblock. Primeau obviously can’t come right out and say that. But that’s the truth (...)

 

“A lot of stuff I’m going to keep personal, but one of the main things was he’s had such a long career, and just seeing how he handles himself on and off the ice, how he is as a person to his teammates,” Primeau said of Allen. “Yeah, he’s one of the good ones and it’s tough to see him go, but his time here went well and I wish him the best. Just excited for the opportunity.”

 

[dlbalr]

Something worth noting is that Allen admitted today that he vetoed a trade to New Jersey earlier in the season, citing concern about having enough playing time with them.

[JoeLassister]

17 hours ago, dlbalr said:

Something worth noting is that Allen admitted today that he vetoed a trade to New Jersey earlier in the season, citing concern about having enough playing time with them.

Legit concerns earlier this season as they were supposed to go with  Vanecek (somewhat proven, Jake Allen caliber) and  Akira Schmid who had taken over the #1 role during last year's playoffs (à la Adin Hill). 

Both have been very dissapointing this season though with under .900 sv%.  Nico Daws as well. 


Maybe I'm alone on this, but for me,  the Devils are clear cut #1 bust this season around the league.   Of course they lost Hamilton after only 20 games and Jack Hughes as well as Hischier both missed time too, but  24th overall ?!?!    I had them contending for the Metro before season started. 

[alfredoh2009]

I wonder what is in the water in NJ that turned Allen into a decent back up goalie?

Jake Allen avec les Devils:

Fiche de 3-1-0
Moyenne de 1,76
Taux d’efficacité de ,946

Ok.

— Simon-Olivier Lorange (@SO_Lorange) March 22, 2024

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

That's great to see, especially beating Winnipeg.