Signing Kaiden Guhle signs: 6 years, $5.55M AAV

[Commandant]

Signing Guhle to a contract that locks him in long term and then trading him would also be a piss poor move by management towards the player and hurt future contract negotiations cause the GM cant be trusted.

 

If you were gonna trade him do it early so he could negotiate his deal with his new team knowing the situation in the lineup, whether he wants to commit long term to.the city, etc...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There are always fans who speculate about a team locking a guy up to a long-term deal and then immediately trading him. I heard the same thing from some fans in Vancouver this year about Pettersson. But how often does it actually happen? I am hard-pressed to think of a single example. If the goal is to flip a guy, you’re vastly more likely to see a trade-and-sign type deal where the receiving team has a contract in place for him right away, based on a prior understanding from all parties involved.

 

In short, when a team locks a guy up, it almost always is exactly what it appears to be: a team committing to that player.

 

Re: Guhle, I initially hoped he would become a stud, top-pairing defenceman. I’m no longer as optimistic that he will ever put up impact offensive numbers. His ceiling seems to be that of an all-purpose all-situations #2-3 guy (Tanev is a good parallel IMHO). In terms of trading him, though, the question becomes: who else among our young D projects to be that kind of player? Maybe Reinbacher. No one else. So don’t be in a rush to trade him, unless Reinbacher has clearly emerged as a guy who can make him redundant. Otherwise you made your D significantly weaker. And I believe in building from D.

 

All of this comes with the caveat - of course - that nobody’s untouchable, certainly not Guhle. If, sometime this season, a team offers us a monster return…an offer you can’t refuse in the non-Godfather sense…then obviously you take it. But such deals tend not to happen very often either.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

In short, when a team locks a guy up, it almost always is exactly what it appears to be: a team committing to that player.

 

 

Yes, the same way they have committed to Slaf, Suzuki and Caulfield.  Circumstances can always change but circumstances would have to change drastically for Hughes to trade one of these guys in the short term. 

[Commandant]

I dont think reinbacher makes guhle redundant cause they can play opposite sides and you can always use two defencemen who can play against top lines, whether you do them together, or one with Hutson and one with Mailloux/Barron 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

10 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I dont think reinbacher makes guhle redundant cause they can play opposite sides and you can always use two defencemen who can play against top lines, whether you do them together, or one with Hutson and one with Mailloux/Barron 

 

Yeah, fair enough. I’m just saying, if Reinbacher emerges as a top-pairing guy, it probably becomes *easier* to move Guhle and absorb the loss of his skill-set.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I dont think reinbacher makes guhle redundant cause they can play opposite sides 

Yes, if things work out, Guhle and Reinbacher will be on the ice together in the last minute of a close game when you are ahead. I think of all the defense prospects those are the 2 with the best shutdown potential.

[DON]

3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Yes, if things work out, Guhle and Reinbacher will be on the ice together in the last minute of a close game when you are ahead. I think of all the defense prospects those are the 2 with the best shutdown potential.

Makes sense.

Will be nice to see Guhle on the left side at some point. 

Struble may be a solid defensive d-man down the road, dont know about Hutson, Mailloux, Barron, Engstrom, Bogdan.

 

[BCHabnut]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 

Re: Guhle, I initially hoped he would become a stud, top-pairing defenceman. I’m no longer as optimistic that he will ever put up impact offensive numbers. His ceiling seems to be that of an all-purpose all-situations #2-3 guy (Tanev is a good parallel IMHO). 

You're probably right, based on what we've seen last year, but I'd like to see him on his natural side with a reasonably defensive partner before I lose my optimism. I saw flashes of pietrangelo stud defenseman last year. I'm not as optimistic either but he was paired with cowboy Matheson and on his wrong side for much of last season.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Just now, BCHabnut said:

You're probably right, based on what we've seen last year, but I'd like to see him on his natural side with a reasonably defensive partner before I lose my optimism. I saw flashes of pietrangelo stud defenseman last year. I'm not as optimistic either but he was paired with cowboy Matheson and on his wrong side for much of last season.

 

I do wish they would stop playing him on his off side. It’s impressive how well he’s done under those conditions, but to me, that’s not putting a kid in a position to be the best he can be.

[tomh009]

15 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I do wish they would stop playing him on his off side. It’s impressive how well he’s done under those conditions, but to me, that’s not putting a kid in a position to be the best he can be.

I really think they are doing that to give him the long-term flexibility to play on either side. Last season really didn't matter if his play was not up to potential (due to playing on his off side) so it was a perfect opportunity for him to learn how to play on the right as well as left. Because sometimes that will surely be necessary, whether due to injuries or otherwise.

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I really think they are doing that to give him the long-term flexibility to play on either side. Last season really didn't matter if his play was not up to potential (due to playing on his off side) so it was a perfect opportunity for him to learn how to play on the right as well as left. Because sometimes that will surely be necessary, whether due to injuries or otherwise.

Don't you know that Mike Babcock has decreed that LHD are no longer allowed to play on the right-side?

87.6% kidding ... but was this even an issue before Babcock started doing it on Team Canada?

[Commandant]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Don't you know that Mike Babcock has decreed that LHD are no longer allowed to play on the right-side?

87.6% kidding ... but was this even an issue before Babcock started doing it on Team Canada?

 

Yes it was seen in analytics before that, that playing on your off side was harder 

 

Its true... when you get the puck on the boards you are on your backhand.  When you are defending passing lanes or forcing a guy to the boards and have one hand on your stick your top hand neans your stick protects the boards instead of the net.

 

Defensively its way harder.

[tomh009]

All other things being equal, it's much harder, I absolutely agree.

 

But those other things are rarely equal, and that's why there is real value in a defender being able to play on his off side (or a winger to do the same, for that matter). If Harris is traded, for example, and Savard not re-signed, we're then down to three credible NHL-calibre RD. One injury, and what do we do? Guhle having ability to play credible RD--even if not as well as he plays LD--means that he would be able to step in and remove the need to call up a mediocre AHL RD to fill that gap.

 

 

[Commandant]

2 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

All other things being equal, it's much harder, I absolutely agree.

 

But those other things are rarely equal, and that's why there is real value in a defender being able to play on his off side (or a winger to do the same, for that matter). If Harris is traded, for example, and Savard not re-signed, we're then down to three credible NHL-calibre RD. One injury, and what do we do? Guhle having ability to play credible RD--even if not as well as he plays LD--means that he would be able to step in and remove the need to call up a mediocre AHL RD to fill that gap.

 

 

 

Both things can be true. 

 

1) Guhle is a better LHD, and

2) the Habs are better off using Guhle as a RHD cause he is better there than the other options and the Habs have better depth at LHD.

 

This can be true of any defenceman and team.  

 

But Babcock who had a number of allstar Ds of both hands at his disposal when coaching canada wasnt wrong for wanting to keep players away from their offside.

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Habs need to draft another high end potential RD. We know that Reinbacker and Mailloux aren’t far away from the NHL and then we got nothing. 
 

Ideally both Reinbacker and Mailloux are strong enough to not need to use Guhle on the right. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

5 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Habs need to draft another high end potential RD. We know that Reinbacker and Mailloux aren’t far away from the NHL and then we got nothing. 
 

Ideally both Reinbacker and Mailloux are strong enough to not need to use Guhle on the right. 

 

IF both of those guys work out, then we can just fill the #3 RD slot with a generic defenceman. Otherwise, yeah, we may be condemned to using him in that sub-optimal way. There is also the option of a second-tier trade or UFA signing to acquire an adequate 2nd-pairing RD.

[Sir_Boagalott]

 

3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Habs need to draft another high end potential RD. We know that Reinbacker and Mailloux aren’t far away from the NHL and then we got nothing. 
 

 

Really? Are you sure they have no other rhd prospects? 

 

Someone certainly disagrees:

 

Quote

"N'yet!!"  Bogdan

 

Bogdan is 20 yrs old and a Captain in the KHL.  In the fairly recent KHL vs NHL game in Russia he happened to be 1 of the 6 dmen that represented the KHL.  Furthermore, he happened to be the very 1st player to show up at the arena for that game.

 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Harris can also play the right side and would likely be pretty good as a 3rd pairing on the right side. Assuming he isn't traded. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

23 hours ago, Commandant said:

Signing Guhle to a contract that locks him in long term and then trading him would also be a piss poor move by management towards the player and hurt future contract negotiations cause the GM cant be trusted.

 

 

 

That is your opinion.  Just so you know, there happens to be a concept in Law that you are clearly unfamiliar with called setting a precedence.  

 

ex:  if Hughes trades Guhle all the players will certainly trust Hughes that if they think they are worth $X and they ask for $X + anything that he will trade their greedy entitled ass.  i.e.: the players will all damn well know FAFO!

 

That would help future negotiations because the players would understand that if they like: the city, the management, their teammates, the environment at the BellCenter, the fans; and want to win Cups, then they should go into contract negotiations with a reasonable expectation and have an ask that wont be hindrance to the teams chances of acomplishing that.  Moving Guhle would show the players that Hughes is dead serious about the type of culture he is trying to create.

 

[BCHabnut]

8 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

That is your opinion.  Just so you know, there happens to be a concept in Law that you are clearly unfamiliar with called setting a precedence.  

 

ex:  if Hughes trades Guhle all the players will certainly trust Hughes that if they think they are worth $X and they ask for $X + anything that he will trade their greedy entitled ass.  i.e.: the players will all damn well know FAFO!

 

That would help future negotiations because the players would understand that if they like: the city, the management, their teammates, the environment at the BellCenter, the fans; and want to win Cups, then they should go into contract negotiations with a reasonable expectation and have an ask that wont be hindrance to the teams chances of acomplishing that.  Moving Guhle would show the players that Hughes is dead serious about the type of culture he is trying to create.

 

I'm confused. This seems like a reasonable contract, so where is the fa in fafo? I totally disagree with everything you said. Fafo did not help bergevin after subban was traded. It's not like Karl Alzner said, whoa he traded subban for being greedy, I better take a low dollar contract. 

[GHT120]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

That is your opinion.  Just so you know, there happens to be a concept in Law that you are clearly unfamiliar with called setting a precedence.  

 

ex:  if Hughes trades Guhle all the players will certainly trust Hughes that if they think they are worth $X and they ask for $X + anything that he will trade their greedy entitled ass.  i.e.: the players will all damn well know FAFO!

 

That would help future negotiations because the players would understand that if they like: the city, the management, their teammates, the environment at the BellCenter, the fans; and want to win Cups, then they should go into contract negotiations with a reasonable expectation and have an ask that wont be hindrance to the teams chances of acomplishing that.  Moving Guhle would show the players that Hughes is dead serious about the type of culture he is trying to create.

 

 

EQUALLY ... it could eliminate any trust players have in the management team.

 

One of the major reasons Zdeno Chara signed with Boston instead of re-signing with Ottawa back in the day is that the previous August the Sens agreed to a 2-year deal with his friend Marion Hossa and then immediately traded him to Atlanta for Heatly ... Chara felt the team screwed his friend and was glad to have the opportunity to leave.

 

 

[Sir_Boagalott]

1 minute ago, BCHabnut said:

I'm confused. This seems like a reasonable contract, so where is the fa in fafo? I totally disagree with everything you said. Fafo did not help bergevin after subban was traded. It's not like Karl Alzner said, whoa he traded subban for being greedy, I better take a low dollar contract. 

 

Apples to Oranges with that.  i.e. MB was not trying to create the type of culture Hughes is going for.

 

Yes, what was signed is fairly reasonable.  However, you are missing the point that he asked for 8 mil x 8 years.

 

Does anyone really think that Guhle is currently more valuable to the Habs than Nick, Cole or Slaf?

 

Furthermore, Hughes has now signed 3 of their top prospects to long term contracts.  Cole didn't ask for the moon and was reasonable.  Slaf's attitude was he might regret his contract, but he doesn't think so, he's over joyed with it, and said now he has to prove to everybody that he is worth that $, and he's been practicing on ice 3-4 hrs every day all summer.  In contrast, Guhle said I played 50 games and got 18 points, played 70 games and got 22 points, so I deserve $8 mil x 8 yrs.  There is a colossal difference in attitude there.  If Hughes had been dumb enough to do that I would almost expect Guhle to show up to training camp 20 lbs over weight just like Jose Theodore did after singing his big contract.  

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

27 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

That is your opinion.  Just so you know, there happens to be a concept in Law that you are clearly unfamiliar with called setting a precedence.  

 

ex:  if Hughes trades Guhle all the players will certainly trust Hughes that if they think they are worth $X and they ask for $X + anything that he will trade their greedy entitled ass.  i.e.: the players will all damn well know FAFO!

 

That would help future negotiations because the players would understand that if they like: the city, the management, their teammates, the environment at the BellCenter, the fans; and want to win Cups, then they should go into contract negotiations with a reasonable expectation and have an ask that wont be hindrance to the teams chances of acomplishing that.  Moving Guhle would show the players that Hughes is dead serious about the type of culture he is trying to create.

 

I have to agree with Commandant on this one. It's important for a GM to establish trust and credibility with players. Trading them after you conduct good faith negotiations on a long term contract is not the way to do that. Plus it would make it harder to sign UFA's which he might want to do in a year or two.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

Really? Are you sure they have no other rhd prospects? 

 

Someone certainly disagrees:

 

 

Bogdan is 20 yrs old and a Captain in the KHL.  In the fairly recent KHL vs NHL game in Russia he happened to be 1 of the 6 dmen that represented the KHL.  Furthermore, he happened to be the very 1st player to show up at the arena for that game.

 

 

 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/what-do-the-montreal-canadiens-have-in-bogdan-konyushkov-prospect-analysis-development/
 

Bogdan may never even make it to the NHL. Terrible skating for a 5”11 player isn’t something that most teams want. Perhaps he can improve. 
 

I want an 18 year old RD prospect with a high ceiling drafted by the Habs that will play in college system or Laval. 

[Sir_Boagalott]

26 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/what-do-the-montreal-canadiens-have-in-bogdan-konyushkov-prospect-analysis-development/
 

Bogdan may never even make it to the NHL. Terrible skating for a 5”11 player isn’t something that most teams want. Perhaps he can improve. 
 

I want an 18 year old RD prospect with a high ceiling drafted by the Habs that will play in college system or Laval. 

 

Well, you're focusing on the only bad thing about his game that was brought up in that article.  Ironically, out of everything mentioned about his game skating is the only thing that happens to be teachable.  All the other things mentioned are unteachable and he is really good at those things.  

 

Did you listen to the podcast?  The Cannes Russian scout was absolutely livid that the Habs drafted Bogdan several spots before they picked that round.  He wanted Bogdan so bad he was ready to sprint up to the stage to call his name.  

 

I'm thinking the Habs will go big on dmen in this years draft.  i.e. their biggest need now is a PK specialist.  Sure, they could use a top 6 F right now, but they do have Demidov coming after this upcoming season and Hage eventually.