Signing Kaiden Guhle signs: 6 years, $5.55M AAV

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

8 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Besides, contrary to what numerous have hilariously suggested, it is never solely the agent asking for it. That is so far out of touch with reality.   ex:  if you were Guhle and loved Montreal and wanted to stay long term, win Cups, ect, and were willing to take 6 mil x 8 yrs and your agent asked for $8 mil x 8 yrs because they would make more $ if you got more $.  If that was the situation then you'd have a shit agent and you should fire their greedy over reaching ass.  That's the truth.  If an agent does that they would not be representing your best interest, because your priority would be to be there long term and win Cups vs make the most $ possible.  

 

@tomh009 is 100% right about the Taxes.

 

 

 

 

Why would an agent make public what they were asking for?  That part makes no sense to me. I believe (in my world anyway) that negotiations should be private and professional. You hash it out behind closed doors, find some common ground, agree on a final number and then work your ass off. I see no advantage in negotiating publicly.  

[tomh009]

11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

You cherry picked the 2 states with the highest state tax rates for income. Then you have Florida, Texas, Nevada and I think Washington that have zero state tax on income. That is a noticeable difference. 

Absolutely I did--because I said "differences are not always so dramatic". NY tax rates aren't much different from NJ, either.

 

And, yes, red states with no hockey traditions tend to have much lower tax rates.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Absolutely I did--because I said "differences are not always so dramatic". NY tax rates aren't much different from NJ, either.

 

And, yes, red states with no hockey traditions tend to have much lower tax rates.

 

Fair enough, you did say "Not always" which makes your point valid. 

 

Not sure there is a correlation between tax rates and hockey traditions or if you are trying to make a correlation. Certainly one doesn't cause the other but southern states tend to have lower or no state taxes.  

[Sir_Boagalott]

19 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Why would an agent make public what they were asking for?  That part makes no sense to me. I believe (in my world anyway) that negotiations should be private and professional. You hash it out behind closed doors, find some common ground, agree on a final number and then work your ass off. I see no advantage in negotiating publicly.  

 

You're 100% right.  It's not professional to release the amounts yet that's exactly what Guhle's agent did.  

 

I fully agree with finding common ground and working your ass after getting a big contract.  However, you don't find common ground by starting off with an ask for the moon, the stars, and the sun.  

 

That's another big thing that most here don't understand.  There is a stark difference in negotiations when you point out what others have received.  ex: Sanderson got 8.05 x 8 yrs, this guy got that, etc.; than saying here's this contract and I'll have what he's having with a full expectation of receiving it.  

 

The point is if Guhle was asking for 8.05 then he feels he is entitled to that asinine amount.  If he had received that I find it highly doubtful that he'd work his ass of to prove he is worth it.  He most likely asked for that because he thinks he is awesome and already worth that, when he clearly is not an $8 mil/yr dman.  

 

Slaf absolutely had the right attitude, but Guhle had a spoiled entitle brat KK like team toxic attitude.  That's what needs to be realized.

 

Have any of you broken down the math on Guhle's contract by year?  ex: yr 1 4 mil, yr , 4.5, etc.  i.e. 5.5 x 6 = 33 mil, but for 2 more years add $31 mil to it.  Does anyone think Guhle would be worth $15 mil/yr in year 7 or 8 on his 8 yr ask?

 

Another good way look at the insanity of his ask: he settled for 5.5/yr, but wanted 8 mil/yr on the last 2 years.  $33 mil + 16 mil = $49 mil not $64 mil.  $49 mil/8 yr = $6.125 mil/yr.  

 

Luckily, Guhle is a hold over from MB regime.  If Hughes et el had done Guhle's draft I fully imagine and certainly hope that their psychological questions they ask the players would have red flagged him and weeded him out.  

 

[Commandant]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

You're 100% right.  It's not professional to release the amounts yet that's exactly what Guhle's agent did.  

 

I fully agree with finding common ground and working your ass after getting a big contract.  However, you don't find common ground by starting off with an ask for the moon, the stars, and the sun.  

 

That's another big thing that most here don't understand.  There is a stark difference in negotiations when you point out what others have received.  ex: Sanderson got 8.05 x 8 yrs, this guy got that, etc.; than saying here's this contract and I'll have what he's having with a full expectation of receiving it.  

 

The point is if Guhle was asking for 8.05 then he feels he is entitled to that asinine amount.  If he had received that I find it highly doubtful that he'd work his ass of to prove he is worth it.  He most likely asked for that because he thinks he is awesome and already worth that, when he clearly is not an $8 mil/yr dman.  

 

Slaf absolutely had the right attitude, but Guhle had a spoiled entitle brat KK like team toxic attitude.  That's what needs to be realized.

 

Have any of you broken down the math on Guhle's contract by year?  ex: yr 1 4 mil, yr , 4.5, etc.  i.e. 5.5 x 6 = 33 mil, but for 2 more years add $31 mil to it.  Does anyone think Guhle would be worth $15 mil/yr in year 7 or 8 on his 8 yr ask?

 

Another good way look at the insanity of his ask: he settled for 5.5/yr, but wanted 8 mil/yr on the last 2 years.  $33 mil + 16 mil = $49 mil not $64 mil.  $49 mil/8 yr = $6.125 mil/yr.  

 

Luckily, Guhle is a hold over from MB regime.  If Hughes et el had done Guhle's draft I fully imagine and certainly hope that their psychological questions they ask the players would have red flagged him and weeded him out.  

 

 

Im gonna say it.  "Entitled brat", "psychological questions".

 

Dude this is ####ing insane shit that you are spewing.

 

Its normal negotiations and both sides have done press conferences about being happy with the deal and that guhle is part of the future.

 

I dont know where this hatred is coming from, but you are making up personal attacks on the player for no reason.   Out of nowhere.

 

Its a crazy post.

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

21 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Slaf absolutely had the right attitude, but Guhle had a spoiled entitle brat KK like team toxic attitude.  That's what needs to be realized.

 

 

There is no evidence to support this. Guhle has been a leader on every junior team he has played on. He was also willing to play on the right side in Montreal even though he is a LD. I think I have said enough on this topic. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Ok, one more thought. You don't get named captain of Team Canada by being toxic.  I don't know what else to say. 

 

Canadiens prospect Kaiden Guhle named captain of Team Canada juniors | Montreal Gazette

 

 

When Rob Ramage, the Canadiens’ director of player development, was asked about Guhle before the start of training camp this year, he said: “First of all, last year he was named captain in Prince Albert as an 18-year-old. That shows his leadership, his maturity as a young guy. Watching him in the world juniors he was solid. He carries himself like a pro. … I think we’ve got a real solid one there.”

[Commandant]

Guhle's attitude and leadership have been praised everywhere hes played.  The character attacks are both unsupported by evidence and completely uncalled for.

[Fanpuck33]

4 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I think you'll find that the correlation between hockey popularity, tax rates and red states is pretty high:

• Minnesota, 53 active players, 47% tax rate, bluish state
• Michigan, 38, 41%, red
• Massachusetts, 30, 42%, red
• New York, 28, 46%, red
• New Jersey, 15, 48%, red
• Illinois, 15, 42%, red
• California, 14, 50%, red

On the other hand, Texas has seven NHL players, Carolinas three in total.

 

I won't claim causality though. 😊

 

I think you've mixed up red and blue.

[Commandant]

6 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I think you'll find that the correlation between hockey popularity, tax rates and red states is pretty high:

• Minnesota, 53 active players, 47% tax rate, bluish state
• Michigan, 38, 41%, red
• Massachusetts, 30, 42%, red
• New York, 28, 46%, red
• New Jersey, 15, 48%, red
• Illinois, 15, 42%, red
• California, 14, 50%, red

On the other hand, Texas has seven NHL players, Carolinas three in total.

 

I won't claim causality though. 😊

 

Woah

 

California and New york are the deepest blue of blue states.

 

Jersey, Illinois, massachusetts are also solid, solid blue.

 

Michigan is listed as a purple state, but more likely blue than red.

 

Minnesota is like michigan but even further blue.

 

I dont know why you have these states listed as red 

[tomh009]

6 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

I think you've mixed up red and blue.

Oh, yes, I did!

[tomh009]

11 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I think you'll find that the correlation between hockey popularity, tax rates and red states is pretty high:

• Minnesota, 53 active players, 47% tax rate, bluish state
• Michigan, 38, 41%, red
• Massachusetts, 30, 42%, red
• New York, 28, 46%, red
• New Jersey, 15, 48%, red
• Illinois, 15, 42%, red
• California, 14, 50%, red

On the other hand, Texas has seven NHL players, Carolinas three in total.

 

I won't claim causality though. 😊

Fixing my colour map ...

 

I think you'll find that the correlation between hockey popularity, tax rates and blue states is pretty high:

• Minnesota, 53 active players, 47% tax rate, reddish state
• Michigan, 38, 41%, blue
• Massachusetts, 30, 42%, blue
• New York, 28, 46%, blue
• New Jersey, 15, 48%, blue
• Illinois, 15, 42%, blue
• California, 14, 50%, blue

On the other hand, Texas has seven NHL players, Carolinas three in total.

 

I won't claim causality though. 😊

[Sir_Boagalott]

2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

There is no evidence to support this. Guhle has been a leader on every junior team he has played on. He was also willing to play on the right side in Montreal even though he is a LD. I think I have said enough on this topic. 

 

 

Please explain what bearing and relevancy of Guhle being a leader in Jr and playing on the wrong side in regards to him wanting 8.05 mil/yr x 8 yrs?  There is no correlation between what a player does on ice and how highly they think of themselves.  

 

There is certainly no evidence to support that Guhle is undeserving of 8.05 mil x 8 yrs?

 

Nick's contract in year 7 & 8, he'll be underpaid by 3+ mil, same with Cole, and ditto for Slaf.   No evidence supports Guhle wont be worth 11+ mil in yr 7 or 8 of a Sanderson deal?

 

Note:  his agent said: "we wanted 8.05 x 8 yrs"  That's what he'd settle at for 8 years.  If they negotiated like numerous have suggested, then he must have started out at Karlsson $.    

 

 

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Im gonna say it.  "Entitled brat", "psychological questions".

 

Dude this is ####ing insane shit that you are spewing.

 

 

Ya, you're right thats insane.  For sure, if Hughes had done Guhle's draft year he would have entitled him to a special exemption and not asked him any questions during his interview.  Its hatred and a direct personal character attack on Guhle to suggest he'd be asked questions.

 

As the Director of HW World Scouting I would have thought you would be aware that since Hughes started when most prospects have been asked about the hardest interviews + strangest questions the Habs are mentioned more than any other team.  Apparently, this will be a big surprise to you, but those are all psychological questions.

 

 

[Commandant]

What Guhle's agent asked for is irrelevant.  The contract extension he signed 10 months before his old deal expired is all that matters.  It wasnt even a long negotiation, with arbitration or a camp hold out or anything else people get mad at. It was a totally normal early contract extension.

 

And besides all that, the NHL is a business and negotiations are part of that.

 

on to point two...

 

Hughes may not have drafted him, but he still choose to give him a big money, long term deal.

 

And not after a few questions in a half hour pre draft interview ... but after getting to know the kid day in and day out for 2.5 years.

 

So yeah, your character attacks on the kid? Insane ramblings.

 

Hughes committed to him long term, knowing his character.  For you to.say he doesnt fit the team? Bullshit.

 

Dude, i think you are a smarter poster than this.  The posts themselves are nuts though.  I dont know why you are taking an insane position on Guhle's character.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Fixing my colour map ...

 

I think you'll find that the correlation between hockey popularity, tax rates and blue states is pretty high:

• Minnesota, 53 active players, 47% tax rate, reddish state
• Michigan, 38, 41%, blue
• Massachusetts, 30, 42%, blue
• New York, 28, 46%, blue
• New Jersey, 15, 48%, blue
• Illinois, 15, 42%, blue
• California, 14, 50%, blue

On the other hand, Texas has seven NHL players, Carolinas three in total.

 

I won't claim causality though. 😊

 

Minnesota isnt reddish.... its polling solid blue.  It went blue in 2020, its governor is blue (and is one of the final 2 for Harris's vp pick).  Both senators are blue.

 

North Carolina voted twice for Obama, has a blue governor, and is a dead heat in polling right now.  Its pretty much a purple state.

 

South Carolina is solid red.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

18 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

Please explain what bearing and relevancy of Guhle being a leader in Jr and playing on the wrong side in regards to him wanting 8.05 mil/yr x 8 yrs?  than any other team.  Apparently, this will be a big surprise to you, but those are all psychological questions.

 

 

 

My post discussing his leadership abilities in junior were in response to your referencing his "team toxic attitude", your words not mine.  His actions have indicated someone who caress about the team. 

 

There are a lot of things I want in life but realize some of them are not realistic. Guhle accepted 5.5M for 6 years. He didn't have to, there was no gun to his head. He had 1 year left on his contract. He could have played his last year, become an RFA and perhaps negotiated a better contract but he chose to sign a 6 year extension so he must be good with that. 

 

My last post on this topic. At least for this evening. LOL

[DON]

Guhle 29pts/82gms over his 1st 2 years

Shae Weber 35pts/82gms over 1st 3 years

 

So, who knows how limited his offense is? Not 60 or 80pts of course; but maybe more than 40?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

9 minutes ago, DON said:

Guhle 29pts/82gms over his 1st 2 years

Shae Weber 35pts/82gms over 1st 3 years

 

So, who knows how limited his offense is? Not 60 or 80pts of course; but maybe more than 40?

Being paired with an offensive player like Matheson surely doesn’t help Guhle’s points. 
 

Guhle spends his time covering Matheson’s weaknesses in the Dzone and then it’s Matheson carries the puck and is the guy involved in the rush. 
 

Guhle is relied on to be defensive 

[DON]

Yup, Guhle 0 PP points and tiny amount of PP time so far.

And i suppose likely very little for near future; Matheson-Hutson-Mailloux likely eat it all up.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

$8 mil for Guhle seems ridiculous NOW, but the legitimate question he and his agent probably asked themselves is: **will it be ridiculous in 6, 7, 8 years?**

 

If not, then it was a reasonable starting demand.

 

He was being asked to project his value eight years into the future, in a (likely) rising cap world. Not implausibly, he took the position - as a confident young player who has been eating huge minutes at age 22 - that he might be worth $8 mill in his prime, given a rising cap. 

 

The Habs very reasonably pushed back, preferring not to gamble by overpaying for the first 3-4 years of his deal in the hope that they’d get decent value on the back end. And Guhle very reasonably said: OK, I’ll take what’s a fair value deal for now, and maybe six years hence I’ll get a big payday. 

 

That he signed for six still shows that he wants to be in Montreal, likes it here, and believes in the organization. He just declined to leave what he believes will be millions on the table when he’s 28. Fair enough.

 

I see no way to turn this from a “good news” story into one that says we have to dump his ass.

 

(BTW, with Guhle, I always personally find that he LOOKS like an entitled brat. Something in his face and his smarmy expression. But the question is not what he looks like, it’s what he is. And the above negotiating position is insufficient evidence of a bad attitude, for the reasons I just gave).

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Guhle looks arrogant as hell. 
 

Perhaps he is, perhaps he isn’t.
 

I just want the kid to put on muscle so he gets thumped less. He is a good player that “seems” to be well liked and respected by teammates. 
 

Can't glean much about a person by their salary demands (which was certainly from his agent and not Guhle) or a person’s “resting bitch face”. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

$8 mil for Guhle seems ridiculous NOW, but the legitimate question he and his agent probably asked themselves is: **will it be ridiculous in 6, 7, 8 years?**

 

If not, then it was a reasonable starting demand.

 

He was being asked to project his value eight years into the future, in a (likely) rising cap world. Not implausibly, he took the position - as a confident young player who has been eating huge minutes at age 22 - that he might be worth $8 mill in his prime, given a rising cap. 

 

The Habs very reasonably pushed back, preferring not to gamble by overpaying for the first 3-4 years of his deal in the hope that they’d get decent value on the back end. And Guhle very reasonably said: OK, I’ll take what’s a fair value deal for now, and maybe six years hence I’ll get a big payday. 

 

That he signed for six still shows that he wants to be in Montreal, likes it here, and believes in the organization. He just declined to leave what he believes will be millions on the table when he’s 28. Fair enough.

 

I see no way to turn this from a “good news” story into one that says we have to dump his ass.

 

(BTW, with Guhle, I always personally find that he LOOKS like an entitled brat. Something in his face and his smarmy expression. But the question is not what he looks like, it’s what he is. And the above negotiating position is insufficient evidence of a bad attitude, for the reasons I just gave).

 

 

 

I think you summed up pretty well how things likely happened in negotiations. Interesting to read people's opinions on how Guhle looks. Some people just don't smile much and he seems to be one of those. I don't read much into it. I just think he is a bit of an introvert. 

[DON]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Guhle looks arrogant as hell. 

What? Are you kidding?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

51 minutes ago, DON said:

What? Are you kidding?

He has this smug look on his face to me. 
 

That’s what I mean by you can’t learn anything from an impression of how someone looks because Guhle probably isn’t a smug little bastard. 

[BCHabnut]

Bogalot. I know you want to win this argument, but I think your making all of these comments based on a leaked initial ask by the agent. They are pretty baseless. I raised an eyebrow when I heard the ask as well, but if I were you, I would let this one go. He extended a full year before he had to. He didn't hold out until September 2025. It's a reasonable contract with a bit of risk, but overall it's not worth all of this baseless character assassination.