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2019-20 NHL Discussion Thread

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15 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

The supposed edmonton trade was not draisaitl and the 4th overall pick.

 

It was just the 4th pick

 

There was no way the oilers were giving up two top 4 picks (draisatl was third the year before)

 

Bergevin said no when dubois was picked at 3rd 

That's not what I was hearing,

 

Everyone wanted Dubois they thought he was going to go 4th so media started up the PK to edmonton so we could draft him because edmonton needed A playmaking d. 

 

Remember hearing edmonton offered Draisaiti and the 4th for PK and our pick.

 

But Bergevin was pushing for them to add Klefbom. Then when Dubois went 3rd to Columbus deal was dead.

Edited by Habsfan89

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

That's not what I was hearing,

 

Everyone wanted Dubois they thought he was going to go 4th so media started up the PK to edmonton so we could draft him because edmonton needed A playmaking d. 

 

Remember hearing edmonton offered Draisaiti and the 4th for PK and our pick.

 

But Bergevin was pushing for them to add Klefbom. Then when Dubois went 3rd to Columbus deal was dead.

 

Can you find a link for this?

 

The only things I'm seeing is that Edmonton said no to including Draisatl because Chiarelli said he wasn't adding more when Subban's salary was already $9 million. 

 

So Montreal could have asked for him, but that doesn't mean it was ever possible to get him included in the Subban deal. 

 

Here is what I found and it cites Elliott Friedman who is one of the league's best insiders. 

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/it-makes-sense-that-the-edmonton-oilers-passed-on-p-k-subban

 

Says Friedman: “With McDavid’s next contract potentially massive, Peter Chiarelli looked elsewhere. The Hall-for-Adam Larsson deal saves Edmonton more than $1.8M in cap room. No doubt that’s why it was a one-for-one trade. New Jersey GM Ray Shero could say, ‘I’m adding salary, I’m not giving up anything else.’ He took a hard line….It’s clear Edmonton desperately sought right-handed defensive help. They passed on Subban.”

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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Can you find a link for this?

 

The only things I'm seeing is that Edmonton said no to including Draisatl because Chiarelli said he wasn't adding more when Subban's salary was already $9 million. 

 

So Montreal could have asked for him, but that doesn't mean it was ever possible to get him included in the Subban deal. 

 

Here is what I found and it cites Elliott Friedman who is one of the league's best insiders. 

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/it-makes-sense-that-the-edmonton-oilers-passed-on-p-k-subban

 

Says Friedman: “With McDavid’s next contract potentially massive, Peter Chiarelli looked elsewhere. The Hall-for-Adam Larsson deal saves Edmonton more than $1.8M in cap room. No doubt that’s why it was a one-for-one trade. New Jersey GM Ray Shero could say, ‘I’m adding salary, I’m not giving up anything else.’ He took a hard line….It’s clear Edmonton desperately sought right-handed defensive help. They passed on Subban.”

Not a link just remember from hockey talk show 's when they talk rumor mills.  I think hockey central or satellite hot stove. But I remember it was Draisaiti or hall at times with the 1st. But they were saying Bergevin was pushing for them to include Klefbom.

 

But I do remember the whole thing got started because French media and fans wanted Bergevin to trade up to draft Dubois. So people brought up PK because Edmonton needed a D and Draisaiti was brought up because Montreal needed a center.

 

But what's done is done.

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3 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Not a link just remember from hockey talk show 's when they talk rumor mills.  I think hockey central or satellite hot stove. But I remember it was Draisaiti or hall at times with the 1st. But they were saying Bergevin was pushing for them to include Klefbom.

 

But I do remember the whole thing got started because French media and fans wanted Bergevin to trade up to draft Dubois. So people brought up PK because Edmonton needed a D and Draisaiti was brought up because Montreal needed a center.

 

But what's done is done.

 

 

Yes, what's done is done. Who really knows what went on behind the scenes, two top 4 picks would have been too much to give up for Subban.  Bottom line is the Oilers kept Draisaitl and they are very glad they didn't trade him anywhere.  Would have loved to see him in a Hab uniform. He is a beast. 

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Babcock fired.

 

That's a shame. I had hoped that circus would have continued the rest of the year, but hopefully their new coach inspires them to a 9th oa finish in the east.

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36 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

Babcock fired.

 

That's a shame. I had hoped that circus would have continued the rest of the year, but hopefully their new coach inspires them to a 9th oa finish in the east.

 

Kudos to MLSE for doing the sensible thing. Doesn't he have three more years at $6 mil? That is one massive meatball they're swallowing.

 

Part of me is happy because I'm tired of the Babcock myth. The guy hasn't won a playoff round in seven years, and yet people act like he's Scotty Bowman. He's not, he's a capable head coach, period, not obviously better or worse than most of the other lifers out there. I'd rather have Julien; he at least seems to have adapted his style to the evolution of the game.

 

On the other hand, the Leafs have a damned strong team on paper. Since I believe Babcock was the primary problem, I would not at all be surprised to see the Leafs eventually start surging under the new guy...maybe all the way to a deep playoff run. God forbid!!

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I actually changed my mind sometime in the last week, after an article in the Athletic, where they looked what was different between last season's Leafs and this year's edition. The answer? The top forwards are not shooting, and far more of the shots are from the point, not from the front of the net.

 

Before:

image.png

 

After:

image.png

 

The difference? Dave Hakstol. Not Babcock. Hakstol. And Hakstol has done similar things at other teams, so the Leafs' change is not an aberration (for him).

 

And given that Keefe is new to the NHL, I bet that Hakstol's influence (and the Leafs' struggles) will remain.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Kudos to MLSE for doing the sensible thing. Doesn't he have three more years at $6 mil? That is one massive meatball they're swallowing.

 

The deal was front-loaded and Babcock will get another job at a similar (if not higher) rate than what's still owed over the remainder of the contract.  While it's possible he just sits at home for a few years and collects his money, the better odds are that they don't pay much of that in the end as his new team will be paying him by then.

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I like babs! let me clarify I like that a grown a$$ man let other men/women call him babs, seems to me as some1 who is good with they self. That said; like CC said he ain't no Bowman 

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13 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Kudos to MLSE for doing the sensible thing. Doesn't he have three more years at $6 mil? That is one massive meatball they're swallowing.

 

Part of me is happy because I'm tired of the Babcock myth. The guy hasn't won a playoff round in seven years, and yet people act like he's Scotty Bowman. He's not, he's a capable head coach, period, not obviously better or worse than most of the other lifers out there. I'd rather have Julien; he at least seems to have adapted his style to the evolution of the game.

 

On the other hand, the Leafs have a damned strong team on paper. Since I believe Babcock was the primary problem, I would not at all be surprised to see the Leafs eventually start surging under the new guy...maybe all the way to a deep playoff run. God forbid!!

Totally agree.  When Mathews isn’t getting more time in. A critical playoff series it’s a coaching issue.


even with the team CANADA gold cups there is no way the talent on those teams should have needed to rely on Carey Price to still as many games as he did and a lot of games should not have been as close as they were. It was the don’t lose mentality, rather than let’s kick some ass given the stacked team we have.

 

and unlike bergevin they didn’t throw him extra lifelines like we did with Therrien.

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13 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Kudos to MLSE for doing the sensible thing. Doesn't he have three more years at $6 mil? That is one massive meatball they're swallowing.

 

Part of me is happy because I'm tired of the Babcock myth. The guy hasn't won a playoff round in seven years, and yet people act like he's Scotty Bowman. He's not, he's a capable head coach, period, not obviously better or worse than most of the other lifers out there. I'd rather have Julien; he at least seems to have adapted his style to the evolution of the game.

 

On the other hand, the Leafs have a damned strong team on paper. Since I believe Babcock was the primary problem, I would not at all be surprised to see the Leafs eventually start surging under the new guy...maybe all the way to a deep playoff run. God forbid!!

a damn strong top 6 and goalie you mean?  Because they have no depth after their top 6 really, no defence except Reilly and Muzzin. Outside of that they have holes all over the place and if they aren't scoring on the PP they struggle mightly. Add to that they are hard pressed up against the cap. Next year they need to free up at least 3.5 million to sign Barrie (if they even want to) or risk losing depth in that deal with Kadri! A little more money to sign Muzzin and a lot more to sign Anderson the following year... they've pissed away all their depth in 2 seasons after building up that depth over 10/15 of the worst years they could imagine. More moves are on the horizon to shed salary and one would only believe that more depth will be lost. This team f'd them selves up by overpaying all there stars and not assembling there team properly!

 

Can it be fixed? Of course when you have forwards in your top 6 like that. But the balance of the team is completely lopsided.

 

shambles I say

 

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30 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

a damn strong top 6 and goalie you mean?  Because they have no depth after their top 6 really, no defence except Reilly and Muzzin. Outside of that they have holes all over the place and if they aren't scoring on the PP they struggle mightly. Add to that they are hard pressed up against the cap. Next year they need to free up at least 3.5 million to sign Barrie (if they even want to) or risk losing depth in that deal with Kadri! A little more money to sign Muzzin and a lot more to sign Anderson the following year... they've pissed away all their depth in 2 seasons after building up that depth over 10/15 of the worst years they could imagine. More moves are on the horizon to shed salary and one would only believe that more depth will be lost. This team f'd them selves up by overpaying all there stars and not assembling there team properly!

 

Can it be fixed? Of course when you have forwards in your top 6 like that. But the balance of the team is completely lopsided.

 

shambles I say

 

 

Let's hope.

 

I like Nylander a lot, but I was surprised they didn't trade him over the whole contract imbroglio. Depending on how you formulated the return, that could have eased up the cap situation quite a bit...had they gotten back 1-2 near-ready prospects they could have high-ceiling, low-cost, Suzuki-style depth on the team right now. There is also one school of thought - I'm not quite sold on it myself - which says that the Leafs don't have enough sandpaper. The team is "out of balance" in relying too much on skill. I can see this as a criticism of the team in the playoffs, but not the regular season; so to my mind this criticism reflects the default position of a certain kind of old-school Canadian hockey "mind" (i.e., if a team is struggling, it's because it's not physically tough enough).

 

I wonder who the next firing will be? Hearing a lot about Nashville.

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24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Let's hope.

 

I like Nylander a lot, but I was surprised they didn't trade him over the whole contract imbroglio. Depending on how you formulated the return, that could have eased up the cap situation quite a bit...had they gotten back 1-2 near-ready prospects they could have high-ceiling, low-cost, Suzuki-style depth on the team right now. There is also one school of thought - I'm not quite sold on it myself - which says that the Leafs don't have enough sandpaper. The team is "out of balance" in relying too much on skill. I can see this as a criticism of the team in the playoffs, but not the regular season; so to my mind this criticism reflects the default position of a certain kind of old-school Canadian hockey "mind" (i.e., if a team is struggling, it's because it's not physically tough enough).

 

I wonder who the next firing will be? Hearing a lot about Nashville.

Jon Cooper 

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12 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Jon Cooper 

 

TB has three games in hand, though. Might be premature to panic there, although I definitely think the 3-year extension to Cooper was a mistake they'll live to regret.

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

TB has three games in hand, though. Might be premature to panic there, although I definitely think the 3-year extension to Cooper was a mistake they'll live to regret.

I'm just saying, in the not too distant future, I think he'll be one to go

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Quenville overstayed in chicago, but he is my favorite canadian coach. Julien is up there too. I've always felt that Babcock was over rated. He isn't a bad coach. He's a good coach, but he isn't bowman 2.0

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Babcock will probably wait for a call from Seattle

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First Babcock's mind games/bullying come to light, now Bill Peters racism and assaulting former players...

 

Other "old school" coaches aren't going to be sleeping easy this week.

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29 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

First Babcock's mind games/bullying come to light, now Bill Peters racism and assaulting former players...

 

Other "old school" coaches aren't going to be sleeping easy this week.

I think someone in the flames organization wants peters gone.

 

Thank god CJ is French no one will know what he is saying unless they speak French lol.

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It's NHL #MeToo week.

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6 hours ago, Trizzak said:

First Babcock's mind games/bullying come to light, now Bill Peters racism and assaulting former players...

 

Other "old school" coaches aren't going to be sleeping easy this week.

if "old school" coaching gives a "free pass" to bully and use "old boys club" "privilege card" to keep doing such non sense. GREAT!!! :)

(edit) I will even go as far as Make Hockey Great Again!!! lollll

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Huh,  kind of like hiring only french coaches, i believe that is the definition of being racist. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Huh,  kind of like hiring only french coaches, i believe that is the definition of being racist. 

 

 

 

No it isn't. It's a policy that says the coach should be able to communicate with the community of which he is a central part. Don't confuse the issue.

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