Permanent Rumour Thread

[Habsfan]

Brisebois still suck

I'm sorry, but for the price we pay him, Brisebois has been doing a very decent job over the past two seasons. I'd even say that he does a good job. Sure he makes some defensive mistakes, but he makes up for it on offense!

[sbhatt]

O'Byrne ...... suck

damn right he does

[ForumGhost]

Well, I would much prefer going after a superstar in the free agency market (I'd like another shot at Hossa), Vinny would be monumental, not just for his skill but for how crazy he would make the Bell centre go. I would hate to see Higgins go but it's been proven we don't need him to succeed. Pleks is great and has tons of potential, but I guess a centre replaces a centre. Subban is not a great loss since it's not yet determined if he can play at an NHL level (but of course the potential is still there). The biggest problem for us in the present would be the loss of Gorges. Quite simply, the defensive core would be unable to cope. Yeah, Brisebois has been playing well for the price, but that's not saying much considering we're paying him jack s***. The skill is there but I think the years are really taking a toll on him. He just looks way too tired sometimes. If Gorges were to go, that would not only saddle him with more minutes (considering there's no NHL ready replacement available) but would require him to take a more defensive role, whereas before he was just mainly used for his offensive capabilities.

If we were to pull off this trade, if think it would hurt our chances at a Cup this year but would set us up as major contender for years to come.

[BCHabnut]

We have a good team without Vinny, I don't know if adding him halfway through the season would necessarily help us in the playoffs. But having said that, he's one of the few superstars who's actually worth the money. But that contract is huge and for so damn long, it's all but guaranteed to bite us in the ass down the line.

People probably said that in the 1970s when Lafleur was given a 10 year, 10 million dollar deal. The largest at the time. By the time it was over, it actually affected his performance because he was pissed that league bums were making more than him.

[KoZed]

Not sure if this was posted yet. If so, please forgive. Bob McKenzie says it's all up to Vinnie which leads me to believe that TB is wavering in whether or not to retain him. This rumour is getting juicy. We'll see in time.

All I can say is: WOW

MCKENZIE: POTENTIAL FOR LECAVALIER GOING TO HABS IS THERE

Mathias Brunet from La Presse reported the same deal, difference is that Gorges is not "100%" part of the deal.

Looking at it, it's a lot given, but little lost. Basically, you upgrade Plekanec to Lecavalier and that's about it.

- Higgins is spare part. He's virtually already been replaced by Dago and Patches. LW isnt a problem for the Habs anymore.

- Subban is a prospect, at a position where the Habs are loaded since the past couple of drafts. There's still Weber, Carle, Fisher, McDonagh, O'Byrne and Emelin left in the pipeline.

- The two firsts rounders... Habs are not expected to finish low anyway. With the quality youth the Habs piled up in recent years; its not a huge loss, nothing that can hurt anytime soon.

This is exactly the type of deal you pile up quality players for: to package them for a huge piece.

Heck, I gave almost as much as that to get Vinny in HWL anyway.

[JLP]

wow just coming up to speed on this, as cali wrote here's a vinny to montreal rumor that makes sense ! wow! the deal as it is laid out here is very good for the habs, we have quantity we turn it into quality . . .

[simonus]

wow just coming up to speed on this, as cali wrote here's a vinny to montreal rumor that makes sense ! wow! the deal as it is laid out here is very good for the habs, we have quantity we turn it into quality . . .

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but I still don't see how the cap would work out. Seems like an awfully balsy move to make at a time when the cap might go down.

[BTH]

Mathias Brunet from La Presse reported the same deal, difference is that Gorges is not "100%" part of the deal.

Looking at it, it's a lot given, but little lost. Basically, you upgrade Plekanec to Lecavalier and that's about it.

- Higgins is spare part. He's virtually already been replaced by Dago and Patches. LW isnt a problem for the Habs anymore.

- Subban is a prospect, at a position where the Habs are loaded since the past couple of drafts. There's still Weber, Carle, Fisher, McDonagh, O'Byrne and Emelin left in the pipeline.

- The two firsts rounders... Habs are not expected to finish low anyway. With the quality youth the Habs piled up in recent years; its not a huge loss, nothing that can hurt anytime soon.

This is exactly the type of deal you pile up quality players for: to package them for a huge piece.

Heck, I gave almost as much as that to get Vinny in HWL anyway.

I was thinking the same thing BUT it's still an above average price to pay for an elite forward. Thornton, Jokinen, Boyle, Richards all went for a much lower amount. What this package reminds me of are the over-the-top fan-made offers we invent for players like Hossa, Gaborik and Malkin.

You're right that Higgins is expendable and that Plekanec is only going to get upgraded. But just because we don't NEED Higgins, doesn't mean he isn't a very useful player and one with good trade value. The worst part would be Gorges: a guy who does a whole lot of good to the Habs - trading him would FORCE us to get a second pairing D by the deadline - who we'd seem to be tossing in for no good reason. Subban should be enough to help them get through their D problem. I would ask Tampa to choose two of Higgins, Gorges and Subban (and I'd offer them Weber instead but I'd imagine they're dead-set on it being Subban) - after all, they're going to be drafting his good friend soon.

If the Lightning do wind up getting Tavares, this could all work out for them. They'd still two first line centers in Stamkos and Tavares and they'd also have a bunch of useful forwards like Jokinen, Higgins and Subban that they've picked up in trades.

To answer the question that's bound to come up about Komisarek, the acquisition of Lecavalier should only further entice a team-player into staying with us. This is his career, I doubt he'd run away to Tampa just to play with one of his friends. In Montreal, he'd have 20 more friends (okay, 15's more realistic).

[Habsfan]

when the hell did gorges come into this I never heard his name in any rumours.

Read the Mackenzie article! The names mentionned are Higgins, Plex, Gorges, P.K. Subban and 2 1st round picks!

[Habsfan]

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but I still don't see how the cap would work out. Seems like an awfully balsy move to make at a time when the cap might go down.

I must admit that I also find it hard to believe the Habs actually would have any room to take on Vinny's contract(especially this season!)

Also, if we do sign Vinny, that owuld mean that we would have to let go 2 of the folowing 3 players: Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay. Let's not forget that in a couple of years, when Vinny will be making 10 million$ per season, We will have to re-sign young guys like Price, AK46, Komisarek(next year) and a few others, and they won't come cheap!

[Habsfan]

The more I think about it, the more I think Bob should try to get Bouwmeester instead of Vinny. As much as I'd love to see Vinny in Montreal, his 11 year contract scares the crap out of me.

We need another top 4 d-man, and Bouwmeester would be a perfect fit. He wouldn't be our top d-man(that would be Markov or K-Rex), so he wouldn't be under as much pressure to produce. He would play with Hamrlik, who is as solid as a rock, which would allow Bouwmeester to pinch in on offense once in a while. Give up a few young prospects and a 1st rounder for Bowmeester, and I think the deal could be done(Ie: Subban, Fisher(or McDonough) and a 1st round pick in 2009)

Edited January 13, 2009 by Habsfan

[Habsy]

The more I think about it, the more I think Bob should try to get Bouwmeester instead of Vinny. As much as I'd love to see Vinny in Montreal, his 11 year contract scares the crap out of me.

We need another top 4 d-man, and Bouwmeester would be a perfect fit. He wouldn't be our top d-man(that would be Markov or K-Rex), so he wouldn't be under as much pressure to produce. He would play with Hamrlik, who is as solid as a rock, which would allow Bouwmeester to pinch in on offense once in a while. Give up a few young prospects and a 1st rounder for Bowmeester, and I think the deal could be done(Ie: Subban, Fisher(or McDonough) and a 1st round pick in 2009)

I agree, but he'd be a total rental, which is risky. If we tried to resign him, and sign Komisarek, we'd have over 20 million locked up in 4 defencemen.

[dlbalr]

Regarding the cap situation if such a deal were to go through:

Habs would be over the cap by at least a million (although I haven't run the full numbers through); a secondary move would have to be done or more players would be involved on both sides of the deal - I think the latter happens.

Beyond this season, don't forget that both Higgins and Plekanec are due new deals - combined, they'd get at least 6 given the way the market's been. Add Gorges' 1.1 to that and now you're only hundreds of thousands away from Vinny's cap hit, so the long term implications aren't as dire. It would guarantee that one of Koivu/Lang wouldn't be back next season though.

And Habsfan, remember that it's not the salary that counts as the cap hit, but the average itself (the 7.72). When he's making 10 million or 1.5 later on, the cap hit is still the same.

In other news, Nick Kypreos of SNET apparently reported yesterday that Schneider to Montreal will happen in the coming days, which'd put this rumour to bed if it were to happen...

[alexstream]

In other news, Nick Kypreos of SNET apparently reported yesterday that Schneider to Montreal will happen in the coming days, which'd put this rumour to bed if it were to happen...

ouch... don't really like that.

[dlbalr]

ouch... don't really like that.

It's another one that doesn't quite work financially, although it'd be close...some creative cap management would do the trick.

Also, according to a couple of other forums, Team1200 in Calgary is reporting there's a Kyle Chipchura - Mark Giordano deal on the table.

Giordano's cap hit is 891,667.67 this year and next...makes slightly less than Chipchura at 942,800. Possibly lends credence to Gorges being in a deal, as this move would replenish the lost defenceman while freeing up a small amount of space (about $25,000).

[BTH]

In other news, Nick Kypreos of SNET apparently reported yesterday that Schneider to Montreal will happen in the coming days, which'd put this rumour to bed if it were to happen...

Except if the Vinny deal really does include Gorges, then we would need to add someone like Schneider so it still makes sense. Wasn't dumping Bouillon for a pick a possibility earlier in the season? We'd need to shuffle everything around.

[alexstream]

It's another one that doesn't quite work financially, although it'd be close...some creative cap management would do the trick.

Also, according to a couple of other forums, Team1200 in Calgary is reporting there's a Kyle Chipchura - Mark Giordano deal on the table.

Giordano's cap hit is 891,667.67 this year and next...makes slightly less than Chipchura at 942,800. Possibly lends credence to Gorges being in a deal, as this move would replenish the lost defenceman while freeing up a small amount of space (about $25,000).

if we are to pick up an old dman who's getting older day by day, I'd go more with Aucoin for his slap shot on the PP, for his golden days with Hammer and for his right shot...

[simonus]

I wonder if Tampa would take a higher expiring contract to make the cap issues work out. Maybe Bouillon (or even Dandenault) for a late pick could be added to the deal.

[Habsfan]

And Habsfan, remember that it's not the salary that counts as the cap hit, but the average itself (the 7.72). When he's making 10 million or 1.5 later on, the cap hit is still the same.

Thanks, I know...it was just a brain fart on my behalf!

In other news, Nick Kypreos of SNET apparently reported yesterday that Schneider to Montreal will happen in the coming days, which'd put this rumour to bed if it were to happen...

Kypreos is another idiot from Sportsnet. I don't believe anything anyone says on that channel!

Team1200 in Calgary is reporting there's a Kyle Chipchura - Mark Giordano deal on the table.

Giordano's cap hit is 891,667.67 this year and next...makes slightly less than Chipchura at 942,800.

If I were Bob, i'd pull the trigger on this deal IMMEDIATELY!!!

[Habsfan]

I agree, but he'd be a total rental, which is risky. If we tried to resign him, and sign Komisarek, we'd have over 20 million locked up in 4 defencemen.

Don't they always say Defense wins championships? You are supposed to build your team from the back out. We already have the All-Star goalie. We already have a "big-3" on defense, all we need is a 4th d-man who is good enough to make our d-corps that much more solid.

Anyways, it's not like the Habs have had much problems scoring goals over the past 2 1/2 years.

I would rather have 20 million$ locked up in 4 QUALITY d-men, rather than have 20 million$ locked up on 4 quality forwards!

[Chris]

I would be much more interested in Boumeester then Lacavaller. The package i read earlier includes Pleks, Higgins, Subban, Gorges and 2 first rounders. That is way too much to give up.

I don't see how how the habs would be any different from the bolts, 1 high priced player and knowone else around him. Players like Komi, Price and the Kosty brothers soon and possibly Koivu are all going to cost a pretty penny to resign. How will they get a competeive team out there when the cap is expected to go down?

I am sure BG will stick with his current plan and pick up a rental D to help the PP and move the puck.

Next year they will have possibly 3 young D that could crack the team, Emelin, Weber and Subban who is a wild card. Gorges, Hamrlik, Markov and i'll assume Komi will be back, so 2 of those 3 may be able to make the team.

Fisher goes to hamilton or the habs miss his rights i beleive, McDonagh will play 1 more year in school.

[ForumGhost]

I think Vinny would be great, but the responsible, logical side of me says we need a defenseman more than anything. Schneider is too old. Bouwmeester would give us the overall best defensive core in the league I think but getting Giordano would fill the hole we have at a cheap price.

[JoeLassister]

I was thinking the same thing BUT it's still an above average price to pay for an elite forward. Thornton, Jokinen, Boyle, Richards all went for a much lower amount. What this package reminds me of are the over-the-top fan-made offers we invent for players like Hossa, Gaborik and Malkin.

I agree. This ( Plex-Higgy-Subban-Gorges-2 first picks) is way too much to pay for the 11 years lenght contract. The only reason I could see why the Habs would overpay compared with other teams is the "superstar Québécois" factor.

But even this factor doesn't worth throwing this package for Vinny.

VINNY !!! I'm freaking out if Vinny comes to Montréal !!!!!!!!

[saskhab]

I would be much more interested in Boumeester then Lacavaller. The package i read earlier includes Pleks, Higgins, Subban, Gorges and 2 first rounders. That is way too much to give up.

I don't see how how the habs would be any different from the bolts, 1 high priced player and knowone else around him. Players like Komi, Price and the Kosty brothers soon and possibly Koivu are all going to cost a pretty penny to resign. How will they get a competeive team out there when the cap is expected to go down?

I am sure BG will stick with his current plan and pick up a rental D to help the PP and move the puck.

Next year they will have possibly 3 young D that could crack the team, Emelin, Weber and Subban who is a wild card. Gorges, Hamrlik, Markov and i'll assume Komi will be back, so 2 of those 3 may be able to make the team.

Fisher goes to hamilton or the habs miss his rights i beleive, McDonagh will play 1 more year in school.

Fisher has another year of college eligibility left... this is his junior year of college (3rd). McDonagh has two years of eligibility left.

I like the sound of this Giordano acquisition regardless of the Vinny one (i.e. him replacing Gorges). I think Lang has pushed himself into the category of a guy we'd like to re-sign... along with Saku. With Maxwell coming up the system in the next year or so if all goes to plan, keeping Chips as a reserve forward or converted winger doesn't seem like the ideal allocation of resources... if we can flip him for an inexpensive puck moving d-men (obviously not the most spectacular one, but a #5-6 guy who fits the need) we can get stronger both this year and next if/when we lose our veteran depth (Bouillon, Dandy, Breeze) in order to try and break in some young guys (Emelin, O'Byrne, Weber/Subban).

[Colin]

...It would guarantee that one of Koivu/Lang wouldn't be back next season though..

And here's where I think Gainey's patience is going to put Montreal in a bit more of a commanding position than perhaps some are giving him credit for. Will we really have to forego one of Koivu/Lang? (Or perhaps Tanguay or Kovalev?) I think we all understand that, with the financial situation such as it is, the cap is going to plummet, probably not next season, but the one after that. Which means that long-term planning has to be careful.

That said, the longer Gainey waits while the world is in turmoil, the easier it is for him to look at these players and say, "Look at the economy - you know what's going to happen to the cap. No one is going to be putting out massive offers anymore, therefore signing here at a cheaper price will afford you the comfort of knowing you aren't going to be going elsewhere."

I see no reason, as the year progresses and the cap plummets, that Komisarek will be given anything close to what was rumoured early in the season. Koivu and Lang? I can honestly see Koivu re-signing for a number far closer to $3M, perhaps less. Does anyone - including himself - think he's going to go, at his age and injury liability, to another team and land a sweetheart deal?

Where Gainey lost Streit last year because of patience and a therefore increased demand from Streit for cash, he's going to more than make up for this year with the crashing economy. Players *must* realize the money isn't going to be where it was. Unless they all sign one-year deals... but again, that affords Gainey the opportunity next season to re-up and cut-rate prices. Gainey's patience is going to allow the Canadiens to retain and remain stronger than anyone may have surmised.

Of course, that makes me wonder about Lecavalier and the veracity of those rumours. $7.something against a $56M cap is one thing, but against a $50M cap, well that's a whole other creature. But here again Gainey has out-thought most others. By creating a scouting division which is second-to-none, he's allowed himself the leverage to get a high priced superstar and surround him with lesser-cost rookie and early-career players.

My only - and biggest - issue with all this Lecavalier talk is what it means for the Canadiens defense of this season. Yes, long-term it looks as though our drafting will afford us one of the better defensive corps, but this season while we challenge, we could use another puck moving fella, and if Schneider/Bouwmeester/quiet Niedermeyer talk has any legs, then you're talking about two higher contracts.

I suspect, therefore, that Schneider has a far higher chance of getting here this season - to fill that immediate need. Whereas Lecavalier, if it should come to pass, will be a pre-July 1 deal (LeCav's NT kicks in then). Acquiring both during this season could decimate the secondary scoring and depth of the club, where staggering such acquisitions would allow Schneider to come, assist this season, then walk over the summer and free the club for more salary.

Just some thoughts...

Or should I say More to come...

?? LOL

(H)Ek.