hab29RETIRED Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 With the talk of trading Tinordi for a guy like Yandle, been thinking if he could be a piece for Kane. If we are going to move a defensive prospect with the the size and potential of Tinordi, i want it to be for another young player who is signed for 3-4 years, not a guy who will only have another year on his contract after this year. McKenzie and Friedman have both wrote that non-playoff teams like Buffalo/Phoenix and potential playoff teams like Calgary may make a move for Kane by March 1st rather than the draft, since he may actually cost less now, since the Jets may want to make a move that helps them make the playoff this year. I'd love MB go make a play for a guy like Kane. Kane would give a solid top 2 LW combo of MacPac/Kane for 3 more years and Kane is only 23. To Winnipeg: Tinordi + PAP (assuming he is healthy soon) + Bournival + Gilbert + our 1st round pick To Montreal: Kane+Bogosian. We drop around $8M in cap space and pick up just over $5M (since Kane would be on injured reserve for the rest of the year). Would allow the Jets get a tough physical young D prospect, a tireless versatile young centre in Bournival, potential scoring help from PAP (assuming he gets healthy very soon), defensive depth that is relatively cheap in Gilbert and our 1st round pick. We get an upgrade on D this year with Bogosian over Gilbert (I really think Bogosian can really benefit from a change in scenery) and a bonafide power forward for next year in Kane. Given that Kane would be on injured reserve, we should still have enough money to pick up another forward at the deadline. I really hoped MB would have made a push for Kane+ Bogosian!!! I think Buffalo got him pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I really hoped MB would have made a push for Kane+ Bogosian!!! I think Buffalo got him pretty cheap. I think Buffalo lost this trade hands down. They gave up way too much. But only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I really hoped MB would have made a push for Kane+ Bogosian!!! I think Buffalo got him pretty cheap. Who's to say he didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think Buffalo lost this trade hands down. They gave up way too much. But only time will tell. I agree. Way too much! Bob Mackenzie has the Jets winning as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think Buffalo lost this trade hands down. They gave up way too much. But only time will tell. i don't Bogosian-Myers may turn out to be a wash. Stafford+prospect+lowest 1st pick for Kane is a steal IMO. I agree. Way too much! Bob Mackenzie has the Jets winning as well. they win this year, since it gives a better chance at getting into the playoffs, but the Sabres got the best player + a Dman with just as much potential as Myers. Who's to say he didn't? fair enough, but i doubt if he did, since Kane is unavailable this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Who got the best player in the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Who got the best player in the deal? buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 i don't Bogosian-Myers may turn out to be a wash. Stafford+prospect+lowest 1st pick for Kane is a steal IMO. Myers>Bogosian Stafford, 2 prospects not 1, and a 1st round pick > Kane Considering the corner that Winnipeg was painted in, they made out like bandits in this deal. Joel Armia was drafted 16th overall, Brendan Lemieux is Claude's boy and was drafted 31st overall and another 1st round pick to add to the Jets already impressive arsenal of prospects. This deal makes them better right now AND in the future. I also don't understand the love fest for Kane, he popped 30 goals one time and hasn't even hit 20 any other year. Sure he has the tools to possibly reach his potential but doesn't mean he has the toolbox to carry them around in. And if recent and past events are any indication, I'm not so sure it will be a happy ending for Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Who got the best player in the deal? we don't know yet. Habs 29 has a very high opinion of Kane. While I think he has the skill and potential to be great, it remains to be seen. Myers could turn out to the best player in the deal. Or the 1st round pick is really unknown at this point. Winnipeg got the best players right now and have the future potential. Buffalo's only chance of this trade breaking even is if Kane finally lives up to his credentials. If he is a bust then Buffalo got screwed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 we don't know yet. Habs 29 has a very high opinion of Kane. While I think he has the skill and potential to be great, it remains to be seen. Myers could turn out to the best player in the deal. Or the 1st round pick is really unknown at this point. Winnipeg got the best players right now and have the future potential. Buffalo's only chance of this trade breaking even is if Kane finally lives up to his credentials. If he is a bust then Buffalo got screwed. I will go out on a limb and say jets win this deal now and down the road. Word is most jets fans are loving the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Kane is going to be playing to the left of either Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel next year. That's going to be spectacular. What I don't understand is trading Enroth (who's been amazing backstopping the worst team in the NHL this year) for the deadbeat Lindback who made Bourque look talented in the playoffs last year. Buffalo has no goaltending next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What I don't understand is trading Enroth (who's been amazing backstopping the worst team in the NHL this year) for the deadbeat Lindback who made Bourque look talented in the playoffs last year. Buffalo has no goaltending next year. I can't think of any other reason save that they want no one getting in the way of The Tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 we don't know yet. Habs 29 has a very high opinion of Kane. While I think he has the skill and potential to be great, it remains to be seen. Myers could turn out to the best player in the deal. Or the 1st round pick is really unknown at this point. Winnipeg got the best players right now and have the future potential. Buffalo's only chance of this trade breaking even is if Kane finally lives up to his credentials. If he is a bust then Buffalo got screwed.If Myers turns out to be substantially better than bogosian, than jets may win deal. I think they are both pretty close and both could use a change of scenery. The atlanta/Winnipeg ogres did a lousy job at player development. Both Kane and bogasian were better as19 year olds than they are now..I really think Kane will be a 35-45 goal scorer and happy he isn't going to Boston to be a Neely like thorn. Would love to have him on the habs. With mcdavid/eichal next year, Kane May get his Janney (but MUCH) better centre to play with next year. Keep in mind the 1st rounders rounders buffalo gave up are mid to late 1st rounders. Lemieux's kid is T best a 3rd liner. The first rounder they are giving up will be the lowest of the three 1st rounders they have this year. With this trade the sabres are even thinner, which should give them at least the #2 overall pick. They also didn't give up a grade a prospect like grigerenko. Stafford could probably be had for a 3rd or 4th rounder. Winnepeg improves this year, because they get help for a playoff push, when Kane is hurt and out for the year. Going forward, sabres win. They gave up much less than the leafs did for Kessel and I'd take Kane over Kessel any day. Also gave up less than Dallas did for seguin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 i don't Bogosian-Myers may turn out to be a wash. Stafford+prospect+lowest 1st pick for Kane is a steal IMO. they win this year, since it gives a better chance at getting into the playoffs, but the Sabres got the best player + a Dman with just as much potential as Myers. You could be right, but at this point I think you and Tim Murray are the only two people on the planet who think a. the Sabres won this deal or b. that the Sabres have any real chance of winning this deal. IF Kane 1. fully comes back from shoulder surgery 2. grows up and learns to be part of the team and 3. reaches the high end potential the his ONE 30 goal season indicated AND 4. IF Bogozian reaches his projected potential 5. IF the goalie prospect develops into an NHL player THEN the Sabres win the deal. Winnipeg on the other hand, dealing damaged goods---in a player that was never going to play for them again!!! got: A. a good 3rd pair defenseman--a former rookie of the year who could still meet his (higher) potential B. Drew Stafford, possibly a rental, to help them make the playoffs this year C. 2 quality, well- regarded, prospects D. a first round pick As a return for the physically and reputationally damaged Kane that is outstanding! What a fantastic piece of GM'ing by Chevaldayov (sp). As I see it, instead of selling Kane at a steep discount he some how got Buffalo to assume all of the risk. Buffalo now has to deal with all of the potential problems and behavioural issues that have surrounded Kane (fairly or unfairly is outside of this post). Winnipeg gets rid of a distraction and gets immediate help--giving up only one player off of their current roster-- and a lot of high end potential while the Sabres have Bogozian and Kane's (injury rehabilitation pending) potential. You see Kane recovering and scoring 30 or more on a line with McDavid or Eichel-- and I am sure that is part of Murray's motivation for the trade. I see Buffalo giving up a ton of potential for a potential problem coming off of an extended rehab. If Bergevin had done a deal like this and given up one of Tinordi or Beaulieu, plus Eller plus De la Rose and Hudon and our first, I would be sick to my stomach-- and I would think our GM got gamed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You could be right, but at this point I think you and Tim Murray are the only two people on the planet who think a. the Sabres won this deal or b. that the Sabres have any real chance of winning this deal. IF Kane 1. fully comes back from shoulder surgery 2. grows up and learns to be part of the team and 3. reaches the high end potential the his ONE 30 goal season indicated AND 4. IF Bogozian reaches his projected potential 5. IF the goalie prospect develops into an NHL player THEN the Sabres win the deal. Winnipeg on the other hand, dealing damaged goods---in a player that was never going to play for them again!!! got: A. a good 3rd pair defenseman--a former rookie of the year who could still meet his (higher) potential B. Drew Stafford, possibly a rental, to help them make the playoffs this year C. 2 quality, well- regarded, prospects D. a first round pick As a return for the physically and reputationally damaged Kane that is outstanding! What a fantastic piece of GM'ing by Chevaldayov (sp). As I see it, instead of selling Kane at a steep discount he some how got Buffalo to assume all of the risk. Buffalo now has to deal with all of the potential problems and behavioural issues that have surrounded Kane (fairly or unfairly is outside of this post). Winnipeg gets rid of a distraction and gets immediate help--giving up only one player off of their current roster-- and a lot of high end potential while the Sabres have Bogozian and Kane's (injury rehabilitation pending) potential. You see Kane recovering and scoring 30 or more on a line with McDavid or Eichel-- and I am sure that is part of Murray's motivation for the trade. I see Buffalo giving up a ton of potential for a potential problem coming off of an extended rehab. If Bergevin had done a deal like this and given up one of Tinordi or Beaulieu, plus Eller plus De la Rose and Hudon and our first, I would be sick to my stomach-- and I would think our GM got gamed Yeah I agree, it is going to be tough for Buffalo to win this deal. unless Kane turns his career around. It could happen. But.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If Myers turns out to be substantially better than bogosian, than jets may win deal. I think they are both pretty close and both could use a change of scenery. The atlanta/Winnipeg ogres did a lousy job at player development. Both Kane and bogasian were better as19 year olds than they are now.. I really think Kane will be a 35-45 goal scorer and happy he isn't going to Boston to be a Neely like thorn. Would love to have him on the habs. With mcdavid/eichal next year, Kane May get his Janney (but MUCH) better centre to play with next year. Keep in mind the 1st rounders rounders buffalo gave up are mid to late 1st rounders. Lemieux's kid is T best a 3rd liner. The first rounder they are giving up will be the lowest of the three 1st rounders they have this year. With this trade the sabres are even thinner, which should give them at least the #2 overall pick. They also didn't give up a grade a prospect like grigerenko. Stafford could probably be had for a 3rd or 4th rounder. Winnepeg improves this year, because they get help for a playoff push, when Kane is hurt and out for the year. Going forward, sabres win. They gave up much less than the leafs did for Kessel and I'd take Kane over Kessel any day. Also gave up less than Dallas did for seguin. So by your logic, a 19 year old Kane was better than a 20-23 year old Kane, but will somehow be a 35-45 goal scorer in the future. Makes sense. Also by your logic, the 2 prospects and the 1st round draft pick won't amount to anything of significance because they are only middle to late first round. Somebody better break the bad news to the kids, Habs29 said so. I didn't realize you were in discussions with GM's around the league to get a value on the market for Stafford. 3rd or 4th round pick is his value I guess. And finally, the Leafs traded 2 firsts and 1 second round pick for Kessel. If you consider the Jets/Sabres deal to be Myers = Bogosian, then that means Kane + Kasdorf = 2 firsts (Armia, pick) + 1 second (Lemieux)+ Stafford. I don't see how that is giving up more considering when the Leafs made the deal they clearly didn't believe they would be picking second overall the following year. And you would rather Kane than Kessel? As much as I love busting Kessel's chops, you have to give credit where credit is due. The guy is like top 5 in scoring over the last few years, while Kane has been busy taking pictures with stacks of money, alienating himself from his team and regressing as a player from age 19 as you have already stated. I see Buffalo giving up a ton of potential for a potential problem coming off of an extended rehab. If Bergevin had done a deal like this and given up one of Tinordi or Beaulieu, plus Eller plus De la Rose and Hudon and our first, I would be sick to my stomach-- and I would think our GM got gamed Exactly. Can you imagine? Luckily MB is running the show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Buffalo has been a terrible team for a long time and giving up some prospects and one of three first round picks isn't going to hold their team back. Buffalo got the two best players in the deal in Kane and Bogosian. Myers has a higher ceiling due to a hot start and having similar genetics to Zdeno Chara but that doesn't guarantee he'll show it. Bogosian has been better now. That's not just, "Winnipeg is better than Buffalo" but he's been smarter without the puck. You can't compare the deal to what Montreal would do because Montreal and Buffalo are in completely different situations. Buffalo has nothing but a future. Montreal has a future and a present. It's okay to lose Lemieux and Armia when you have either Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel coming in and you're getting a 23 year old with six seasons of experience already under his belt. Bogosian is also a New York native and will probably love it in Buffalo. It's a good deal for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I also think Buffalo won this deal. Kane is a huge talent and I don't look forward to facing him in the division. At this point, Bogosian is probably better than Myers. The two prospects and a mid-late 1st rounder could be something or they could be nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think Winnipeg clearly won this deal. They got rid of Evander Kane. Win. Side bet : Evander Kane will not finish the 2015-2016 in Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Buffalo has been a terrible team for a long time and giving up some prospects and one of three first round picks isn't going to hold their team back. Buffalo got the two best players in the deal in Kane and Bogosian. Myers has a higher ceiling due to a hot start and having similar genetics to Zdeno Chara but that doesn't guarantee he'll show it. Bogosian has been better now. That's not just, "Winnipeg is better than Buffalo" but he's been smarter without the puck. You can't compare the deal to what Montreal would do because Montreal and Buffalo are in completely different situations. Buffalo has nothing but a future. Montreal has a future and a present. It's okay to lose Lemieux and Armia when you have either Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel coming in and you're getting a 23 year old with six seasons of experience already under his belt. Bogosian is also a New York native and will probably love it in Buffalo. It's a good deal for both teams. Spot on cost analysis as usual from MoLG. The Sabres lost the trade, big time. The mitigating factor is that all of these (1st round pick, young dman with size and two offensive prospects) are assects the Sabres have in spades. A lot of their prospects are ready for the NHL, and they have Ristolainen and Zadorov for young defensemen. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/buffalo_sabres/ The Sabres have been tanking for years, this trade is a step in the right direction for them. I don't like Kane, but Moulson-McEichel-Kane is a real deal first line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I can't think of any other reason save that they want no one getting in the way of The Tank. thats right. Moving Enroth will lose them points they would have got. Thats move is about finishing last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If so, hope last place does not get first pick. Got zero love for Sabres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If so, hope last place does not get first pick. Got zero love for Sabres. Well there is no way to guarantee they get the first pick. If they finish last then they will have the best odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well there is no way to guarantee they get the first pick. If they finish last then they will have the best odds. But I do like that it is only 20% or something like that to get 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 What I don't understand is trading Enroth (who's been amazing backstopping the worst team in the NHL this year) for the deadbeat Lindback who made Bourque look talented in the playoffs last year. Buffalo has no goaltending next year. Enroth is a UFA after the season and wasn't expected to be back. So too is Neuvirth who also will probably be on the move. Matt Hackett will be the backup next year while their starter probably isn't with the organization currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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