Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[DON]

Who is going to replace Markov? We've been asking this question for years now. The answer has always been nobody. Now that Subban has established himself as the team's best defenceman, we're still not sure who Markov's replacement is because now his role has changed. He's now the veteran blueliner who can score and play great D. We don't have a two way player like him ready. We don't know if Beaulieu will become it. And even if he did replace his production, he wouldn't replace his leadership and experience.

So sure, we might get a first round pick, maybe another pick, a decent prospect from a contending team for him, but what's the use? We're losing value that we can't replace. And hey, let's say we even get a guy similar to Markov to replace him like Kronwall. Who is to say he's gonna gel with the team like Markov does? Nothing.

Your viewpoint in this is a lot like when someone barks, "Hey anyone is tradeable, look at Gretzky!" ignoring that trading Gretzky was a terrible mistake for Edmonton. We're currently riding the second best (or maybe the best) defence in the East. You lose Markov? We're no longer playing with a great defence. All for the gamble of hopefully drafting or acquiring a blueliner who could one day grow to be Markov, or be Markov, or better than Markov. All gambles equivalent of burning your money.

If the right deal came around, there's a lot of Habs I'd trade. For all of the Evander Kane talk, I'd be up to offering Lars Eller to get it done. But Markov? It immediately handicaps the team to lose him. Why would you do that?

A younger top 4 d-man, say Byfuglien (just one example) can fill Markov's spot. Done deal 6-7 years younger, cheaper, more grit, bigger shot, faster skater. So no handicapping team next year and better long run, maybe?

[hab29RETIRED]

Is Byfugien going to replace Markov's leadership, hockey sense, commitment and veteran presance?

A younger top 4 d-man, say Byfuglien (just one example) can fill Markov's spot. Done deal 6-7 years younger, cheaper, more grit, bigger shot, faster skater. So no handicapping team next year and better long run, maybe?

[Commandant]

Byfuglien is a horrible defender with poor hockey sense and no, he's not faster than Markov..... even with the knee operations.

Markov also is far superior in his positioning which makes the speed thing even bigger.

They guy was 300 lbs last year for crying out loud.... and no, not during the summer, but was actually that weight during the year last season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/dustin-byfuglien-weighed-302-pounds-end-winnipeg-season-131116224.html

With Byfuglien's weight issue, I have no confidence in him aging gracefully. Hell Markov might be less injury prone than this guy going forward. That weight is gonna screw up his joints....

[thehabbit]

I wonder if Colorado would take Moen for McGinn?

[dlbalr]

I wonder if Colorado would take Moen for McGinn?

McGinn is an underrated 3rd line forward and is a fair bit younger than Moen. I like McGinn myself but I think he would likely cost more than that.

[Guest Stogey24]

Apparently Melanby was at the Rangers and Jets games this week. Probably nothing but it does feel like a trade could happen.

[thehabbit]

McGinn is an underrated 3rd line forward and is a fair bit younger than Moen. I like McGinn myself but I think he would likely cost more than that.

Its reported they are looking for a vet forward or a dman, maybe toss in a 3rd.

[DON]

Would Emelin-Markov hold any sway over Kulikov coming to Habs (since it seems he is leaving Florida one way or other-KHL) and resigning?

Ekland or someone else tossed out another interesting Ave name (since Habs supposedly are scouting them more than other teams), Ryan OReilly, who seems like a good hockey player, who already played almost 300 NHL games and only 22 years old.

[dlbalr]

Keep in mind O'Reilly can't be traded until February 28th so if they move him (and they might), it won't be for a while yet.

[DON]

Keep in mind O'Reilly can't be traded until February 28th so if they move him (and they might), it won't be for a while yet.

know nothing about that? something about RFA status or something?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

know nothing about that? something about RFA status or something?

Avs matched an offer sheet.

[habs rule]

Avs matched an offer sheet.

and saved Jay Feasters fat ass in the process

[JMMR]

and saved Jay Feasters fat ass in the process

Burke is there now to guide him.

[PMAC]

You know not true, older players with surgically repaired knees, achilles would be a bit more risky to insure than a Gallagher/Eller or any younger player with no spare parts in their knee.

Why are we lucky Parros didn't retire? I am happy for him to be healthy, but cringe anytime he is not on the bench or in pressbox.

But this is just a "trade proposal" thread and seems most would never even entertain trading any of top Habs ever, until they slump/are injured and have reduced value, which dosent seem like smart "objective" business practice.

But, I still don't expect any big trades by Bergevin, nor do I think any are necessary, but......

Uh, still disagree with my statement "Any and every player in the league is one hit--or other incident-- away from retirement, every game." after the Bos-Pit debacle?

[DON]

Uh, still disagree with my statement "Any and every player in the league is one hit--or other incident-- away from retirement, every game." after the Bos-Pit debacle?

Yes of course I do, why, what happened that should change that? Who is retiring? Bergeron got another concussion, Crosby?

[PMAC]

not sure what Crosby or Bergeron have to do with it, but Ericsson suffered his second concussion of the season and Orpik is also concussed and is lucky that his injuries aren't worse. My point is that any of these could have been--or in Ericsson's case could be-- career threatening

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't think there's any doubt that a career-ending injury can befall any player at any time.

Of course, some players are at higher risk. Crosby, with his concussion history, is arguably more vulnerable than someone without a similar history.

But all are at risk. That's the nature of the beast.

[PMAC]

I don't think there's any doubt that a career-ending injury can befall any player at any time.

Of course, some players are at higher risk. Crosby, with his concussion history, is arguably more vulnerable than someone without a similar history.

But all are at risk. That's the nature of the beast.

That was my point, there is no point in basing a Markov trade or even a proposed trade on the possibility of another knee injury. He could be hurt tomorrow, he could play until he's 45. Who knows? But if I am MB he is re-signed because the team is better with him on the ice. Of course term and dollars matter, but these issues can be worked out as long as there is an atmosphere of mutual respect.

[BlueKross]

Ideally, Markov should be end up in some kind of mentorship/coaching role. There is still life on the tread yet. I would keep him around with the intent to groom him into the aft forementioned, similar to what Detroit did with Yzerman. When and if his skills decline you play him in a more modest role until he retires as in Yzerman. Mentorship can come from a player who is still active or a coach that is retired. To me, Markov is too valuable to let go.

[DON]

not sure what Crosby or Bergeron have to do with it, but Ericsson suffered his second concussion of the season and Orpik is also concussed and is lucky that his injuries aren't worse. My point is that any of these could have been--or in Ericsson's case could be-- career threatening

2 major reconstructive surgeries to one knee, being Old-Timer Softball age (which comes with the mandatory locked-in salary issue) and a sky-high rental market value at the moment, must make it tempting to at least see what return he might bring, if looking long term?

And many keep saying, Habs are not contenders this year (which I disagree with), so one group of Habfans would be all for trading him, I assume?

[Guest Stogey24]

not sure what Crosby or Bergeron have to do with it, but Ericsson suffered his second concussion of the season and Orpik is also concussed and is lucky that his injuries aren't worse. My point is that any of these could have been--or in Ericsson's case could be-- career threatening

It's true what Don is saying. Markov is getting old and it would take a lesser hit to injure him than say Eller. The way Markov fell last game looked awfully close to being another knee injury.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

- You can't run a team fearing injuries.

- Veterans take longer to heal and are a faster risk of being out due to injury, but that should only dismay you from a long term deal.

- Concussions are not something you can evaluate like a leg injury. The best way to describe what a concussion does is lowers your potential. In other words, say before any concussions you have a potential to be 100% of who you can be. After a concussion, you can still be as great as you are today, but you'll never be as great as you could have been. You can still become better than you are today, but not what you could of. And even that's not necessarily accurate as the concussion you receive might not do any damage until you're in your 50s, long after your career is over.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't know enough about medicine to know the extent to which Markov's injury history makes him vulnerable to similar injuries in the future. If he's 10% more vulnerable, then no biggie. If the thing is held together with duct tape and 90% likely to get blown out again, then it's valid to ask whether we can count on him as a core piece for the next, oh, three years or so.

That he played over 80 games last season and has looked superb over 30 games this year tends to reinforce confidence that his knee is good.

There is a very strong case to be made for keeping Markov around as a life-long Hab. He commands universal respect from his colleagues, and will - if healthy - probably age gracefully because of his exceptional hockey IQ. This is a guy who was developed from within the organization, has been committed to it for 15 years, and remains a massive contributor. He is a standing example to Emelin in particular and the D in general, and we have no obvious replacement from within the organization. I'd ship out a quality mercenary like Gio waaay before I ship out Markov (and as we know, the suggestion to deal Gionta at the deadline has been met with nearly universal opprobium, mainly because of a letter on his jersey).

Besides all that, we're battling for top spot in the conference. Trading Markov under those circumstances would be an unforgivable act of undermining the team. I say #79 retires a Hab, unless we fail to contend toward the end of his next contract and he requests a move to a contender in order to win one, a la Ray Bourque.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Ah yes, a letter on a jersey.

Trading Guy Carbonneau because it was just a letter on the jersey did us wonders too. I mean, it isn't like the team lost any sense of leadership or guidance when Jim Montgomery joined the team.

Opinions like, "Trade Gionta because it is just a letter on his jersey" bewilder me. Especially when the team is where it is. Then again, the only guy who thinks that way in pro hockey is Pierre McGuire and thankfully everyone has been smart to keep him out of an NHL position since the 90s.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well, the rationale for trading Gio is "asset management" based on the premise that his skill-set is declining and somewhat redundant given the rise of Gally and Bournival. To this it was replied that no team with any chance of making the playoffs will trade its captain. So the "C" was indeed the main issue.

That said, the scenario of trading him was raised before the team went on the current tear. It's one thing to debate trading Gionta when your team is a bubble team, but if you're at or near the top of the conference on deadline day, it becomes a fairly crazy thing to do, no question about that.