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What goes around comes around Carolina pay back Kotkaniemi offer sheet


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On 9/7/2021 at 12:11 PM, dlbalr said:

I'll shoot you a note when it's up and running.  I need to get through the NFL pool draft first before I think about renewing the SK league.  That's tonight so hopefully in the next few days I'll be able to set aside some time to get it going.

 

It's up and running now, I sent you a PM last week.

 

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I'll keep an eye on the TSN690 website for them to post the Dredger interview ... ***IF*** true this certainly puts a different spin on how MB managed things this summer.

 

 

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***IF*** true this certainly puts a different spin on how MB managed things this summer.

 

  It really does.  If KK was settled on not re-signing then this whole thing played out much better than we could have expected.  This now seems like it  a huge win for MB from a terrible hand.

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9 hours ago, GHT120 said:

I'll keep an eye on the TSN690 website for them to post the Dredger interview ... ***IF*** true this certainly puts a different spin on how MB managed things this summer.

 

 

 

I made a post back on Aug 30th that mentioned that, and the article I was referring to was days old at that time.

 

On 8/30/2021 at 7:59 PM, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

Darren Dregger on TSN says that sources close to kk knew he had played his last game with the Habs.  If an RFA offer sheet hadnt been given kk might have been close to demanding a trade.

 

 

Has anyone else seen the interview on youtube that kk did when he arrived in Carolina?  IMO, he sounded like a selfish spoiled lil brat of a turd.  i.e. apparently, according kk the Cannes are giving him a great opportunity, because you know the Habs drafting him 3rd over all wasn't a great opportunity.  Neither was the Habs playing him in the NHL as an 18 y/o, or him being the Habs #2 C at 21, etc. 

 

In the sense that the Habs lost a talented young player that was a top 5 pick - that was a bad thing, but losing someone with that attitude in the long run is probably the best thing possible. 

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If this is true, MB has done beyond my hopes in a GM in how he handled it. Quietly. Took the media bashing. Came out with a better center signed and an attitude gone. Good luck to Carolina if they just overpaid a punk. 

It makes you wonder how many of the youngsters that we wonder why we are not playing just happen to have attitude problems. I have been around young players in my life to know that a lot of the most talented are real dicks. That of course falls on our scouts to catch before we draft them. Maybe there is something to our draft scouting system being not up to snuff. Draft high talent that slips to you because of attitude and hope to hit a homer? We drafted a problem this year, KK seems to have had one. Subban was all attitude but managed to live up to it. We had a young purse snatcher, a kid drunk in no shoes getting frost bite, a kid in bar fights with his dad. Those are off the top of my head. Maybe we have to realize that usually these picks are left to slide for a reason? Just a thought.

 

Think we hear "We don't need you" when he plays in The Bell?

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Price and Patches are goody-too-Shoes (is that the expression?)

Lattendresse, Tinordi, others have not had off ice issues

 

I’ll say it’s not an issue

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Not overly enthusiastic about hearing that Kotkaniemi got on the scoresheet during his Canes debut with 1PPG, 1A and it’s only the preseason.

 

/end rant

 

PS: I know we’ve recently lost some 3rd overall picks who didn’t pan out anywhere, and I also didn’t want to draft Kotkaniemi, so I am all over the place, but when people were comparing his potential to Barkov/Kopitar, etc.... I have bad feeling about losing him. 

 

 

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I do not give a spider’s back hair worth to what KK may be doing in CAR

he chose that team and he is now the adversary 

 

I am excited about the depth Trois-Rivieres gives the Habs and the potential to find diamonds in the rough like Deharnais and other late rounders 

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13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not give a spider’s back hair worth to what KK may be doing in CAR

I am 'interested' in how he does, am fine to see him do well. Maybe he will be worth the $6.1m?

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2 minutes ago, DON said:

I am 'interested' in how he does, am fine to see him do well. Maybe he will be worth the $6.1m?

 

I do not like greedy people in general. I just hope Trevor Timmins is vindicated on being a good hockey talent evaluator if KK becomes a $6.1M/worth player

 

But I do not want KK to become a Habs killer like Benoit Pouliot became (I cannot think of others)

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I am very interested in how KK does. If he thrives and becomes a real impact C, then that is a disastrous outcome for us - and highly relevant to our assessment of the Habs’ drafting and development. We don’t need yet another LeClair/Desjardins/Ribeiro/McDonagh situation on our hands.

 

I don’t wish the guy ill, but I don’t want him to become anything more than the Eller 2.0 that I always worried he would become.

 

All that said, I don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how he does in pre-season. In fact, I really don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how anyone does in preseason.

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6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I am very interested in how KK does. If he thrives and becomes a real impact C, then that is a disastrous outcome for us - and highly relevant to our assessment of the Habs’ drafting and development. We don’t need yet another LeClair/Desjardins/Ribeiro/McDonagh situation on our hands.

 

I don’t wish the guy ill, but I don’t want him to become anything more than the Eller 2.0 that I always worried he would become.

 

All that said, I don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how he does in pre-season. In fact, I really don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how anyone does in preseason.

 

reading your post, I agree about the off season vs regular season. changing my thinking on what to look for in KK's Carolina phase

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I want KK and the entire Carolina team to fail and hand us a high draft pick. 

 

Other than that consideration, I don't really care.  I mean Dvorak did pretty well in his first game too.  That said, they were both pre-season games.

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11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I do not like greedy people in general. I just hope Trevor Timmins is vindicated on being a good hockey talent evaluator if KK becomes a $6.1M/worth player

 

But I do not want KK to become a Habs killer like Benoit Pouliot became (I cannot think of others)

Yeah, Drouin and Anderson aren’t greedy fir the contracts they signed🙄

mare you saying if a competitor of your company said they will pay you two or three times what you make, you’d say no?🙄

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I am very interested in how KK does. If he thrives and becomes a real impact C, then that is a disastrous outcome for us - and highly relevant to our assessment of the Habs’ drafting and development. We don’t need yet another LeClair/Desjardins/Ribeiro/McDonagh situation on our hands.

 

I don’t wish the guy ill, but I don’t want him to become anything more than the Eller 2.0 that I always worried he would become.

 

All that said, I don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how he does in pre-season. In fact, I really don’t give a rat’s tuckus about how anyone does in preseason.

100% agree. What really scares me about letting him go is that he becomes the centre we needed. 

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10 hours ago, Commandant said:

I want KK and the entire Carolina team to fail and hand us a high draft pick. 

 

Other than that consideration, I don't really care.  I mean Dvorak did pretty well in his first game too.  That said, they were both pre-season games.

I can see kK failing and not living up to his contract, but I can’t see Carolina falling much in the standings.

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

I can see kK failing and not living up to his contract, but I can’t see Carolina falling much in the standings.

 

I think they will do well.  I hope they don't

 

Have to hope that the D is weaker without Hamilton, the goaltending is an issue, and they get hit with injuries.  Not likely but its what i'm cheering for. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I am very interested in how KK does. If he thrives and becomes a real impact C (..)

If he's an impact player from this season, then I'd say our player development worked (at least in this case) but our coaching is more questionable for not having given him the ice time.

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On teams "breakout" player for upcoming season; from The Athletic;

Carolina Hurricanes: Jesperi Kotkaniemi

Kotkaniemi is obviously overpaid for the season, but it’s a situation that breeds possibility on both sides. The Hurricanes showed they believe in him enough to take a chance, the change of scenery to a quieter market and a Jack Adams-caliber coach after an up-and-down start to his career all bode well for Kotkaniemi becoming the player he could be. Plus, he only just turned 21, and the one-year term is as “prove yourself” as a $6.1 million dollar AAV can be. -Sara Civian

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12 hours ago, tomh009 said:

If he's an impact player from this season, then I'd say our player development worked (at least in this case) but our coaching is more questionable for not having given him the ice time.

 

That doesn’t really follow either. If a guy does well at 21 it does not mean that he would have done equally well at 20. He clearly was NOT an impact player with us when he did get ice time. What he was was a guy who had little spurts and the rest of the time was a “meh.” So I don’t blame the coaches. I don’t buy KK’s apparent argument that he “never had an opportunity” at all. Au contraire.

 

13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah, Drouin and Anderson aren’t greedy fir the contracts they signed🙄

mare you saying if a competitor of your company said they will pay you two or three times what you make, you’d say no?🙄

 

Since any one of the people on this board would take $6 million if it were offered to them, greed is not the issue. If there is a “character” issue with KK, it’s less greed than entitlement. He seems to have thought that playing well for a few games entitled him to a permanent roster spot and loads of ice time irrespective of performance thereafter. 

 

You look at his production with the Habs, it’s three years of flatlined garbage, punctuated by some short-term goal-scoring streaks (but not playmaking) in the playoffs. There was no consistency or reliability at all. This in no way means that he won’t grow into an impact player. It just means that he is wrong to have felt entitled to big ice time. That goes to players you can depend on.

 

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9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That doesn’t really follow either. If a guy does well at 21 it does not mean that he would have done equally well at 20. He clearly was NOT an impact player with us when he did get ice time. What he was was a guy who had little spurts and the rest of the time was a “meh.” So I don’t blame the coaches. I don’t buy KK’s apparent argument that he “never had an opportunity” at all. Au contraire.

 

 

Since any one of the people on this board would take $6 million if it were offered to them, greed is not the issue. If there is a “character” issue with KK, it’s less greed than entitlement. He seems to have thought that playing well for a few games entitled him to a permanent roster spot and loads of ice time irrespective of performance thereafter. 

 

You look at his production with the Habs, it’s three years of flatlined garbage, punctuated by some short-term goal-scoring streaks (but not playmaking) in the playoffs. There was no consistency or reliability at all. This in no way means that he won’t grow into an impact player. It just means that he is wrong to have felt entitled to big ice time. That goes to players you can depend on.

 

 

Good point, entitlement. It is the right word to describe this

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On 9/30/2021 at 9:06 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That doesn’t really follow either. If a guy does well at 21 it does not mean that he would have done equally well at 20. He clearly was NOT an impact player with us when he did get ice time. What he was was a guy who had little spurts and the rest of the time was a “meh.” So I don’t blame the coaches. I don’t buy KK’s apparent argument that he “never had an opportunity” at all. Au contraire.

 

 

Since any one of the people on this board would take $6 million if it were offered to them, greed is not the issue. If there is a “character” issue with KK, it’s less greed than entitlement. He seems to have thought that playing well for a few games entitled him to a permanent roster spot and loads of ice time irrespective of performance thereafter. 

 

You look at his production with the Habs, it’s three years of flatlined garbage, punctuated by some short-term goal-scoring streaks (but not playmaking) in the playoffs. There was no consistency or reliability at all. This in no way means that he won’t grow into an impact player. It just means that he is wrong to have felt entitled to big ice time. That goes to players you can depend on.

 

But isn’t that what you’d expect to happen when you are handed a spot on the NHL roster as the youngest player in the league, when a) you aren’t physically anywhere near to being ready b) you haven’t really done anything to EARN the spot you were handed.

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I think there is something that numerous people are missing.  No matter what happens it will probably be difficult to make a comparison between the Habs kk and future kk.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 10:28 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I am very interested in how KK does. If he thrives and becomes a real impact C, then that is a disastrous outcome for us - and highly relevant to our assessment of the Habs’ drafting and development.

 

 

It seems like kk has no intention of becoming an impact C, it sounds like he'd prefer to be an impact Winger instead. 

 

Silly question, but how many years did kk actually play at C? I'm wondering if his Jr team  didnt have enough C's and he was just moved there against his will in his final 1-2 years.  Then the Habs saw him playing C and drafted him to be their next long term C when it isn't his preferred or likely best position either.  

 

Also, think about the numerous times when kk wasn't playing well and was benched and returned on the wing.  kk rebounded really well every time that happened.  He seemed to do better as a Winger. 

 

In that sense the Cannes might be really smart because it seems like they know kk doesn't want to be a C and they have no intentions of playing him there. 

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

But isn’t that what you’d expect to happen when you are handed a spot on the NHL roster as the youngest player in the league, when a) you aren’t physically anywhere near to being ready b) you haven’t really done anything to EARN the spot you were handed.

 

Yep. I have zero time for the Habs’ repeated stupidities in throwing Galy, KK, and Mete into the frying pan without proper marinading in the minors. Hopefully they have learned their lesson - finally.

 

8 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I think there is something that numerous people are missing.  No matter what happens it will probably be difficult to make a comparison between the Habs kk and future kk.

 

 

It seems like kk has no intention of becoming an impact C, it sounds like he'd prefer to be an impact Winger instead. 

 

Silly question, but how many years did kk actually play at C? I'm wondering if his Jr team  didnt have enough C's and he was just moved there against his will in his final 1-2 years.  Then the Habs saw him playing C and drafted him to be their next long term C when it isn't his preferred or likely best position either.  

 

Also, think about the numerous times when kk wasn't playing well and was benched and returned on the wing.  kk rebounded really well every time that happened.  He seemed to do better as a Winger. 

 

In that sense the Cannes might be really smart because it seems like they know kk doesn't want to be a C and they have no intentions of playing him there. 

 

It’s a very interesting point. The irony is that, if KK’s profile had been that of a W, the Habs almost certainly would never have drafted him in the first place. I don’t know how KK feels about playing C, though. Is he happy moving to the W permanently, or is he seeing this move as a tactical thing and will eventually start pouting for a return to C?

 

Curious statistical fact about KK. During the regular season, he’s had modest point totals but his profile looks basically normal in having more assists than goals. In the playoffs - when everyone agrees he has had one or two impressive playoff rounds - he has 9 goals and 3 assists. It’s like he plays a completely different game for at least a few games during the playoffs. I don’t know what this means, but it’s interesting.

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19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... Curious statistical fact about KK. During the regular season, he’s had modest point totals but his profile looks basically normal in having more assists than goals. In the playoffs - when everyone agrees he has had one or two impressive playoff rounds - he has 9 goals and 3 assists. It’s like he plays a completely different game for at least a few games during the playoffs. I don’t know what this means, but it’s interesting.

It is interesting ... but other than those "few games" his play got him pulled from the lineup ... to me that speaks volumes ... Habs needed goals but DD et al decided to sit their (tied for) second best goal scorer of last spring/summer's playoffs (2nd best in G/GP) for the final two games against TBL.

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