2023 draft, Pick 5: David Reinbacher

[TurdBurglar]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Wouldn't Michkov have been the true "swing for the fences" pick? He's the guy that many scouts seem to see as a potential superstar. 

By every scouting report I’ve seen Michkov is the second best player in the draft, talent-wise.  

I’m glad Montreal didn’t pick him.  With him signing in Russia, I believe there’s legitimate concern that once that 3-year deal is up he may just stay in Russia.  Then nearly any other player is a better pick.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Can't believe they're people not liking this pick SMH. Last five team's to win the cup all had big strong two way Dman on the there D.  We draft a big need that's hard to come by, a big strong RHD.

 

  Goal scorers are easy to draft, trade for, sign in free agency.  

 

Man our D is going to be one tough Dcore in the next few years maybe the best we have ever had in the last 30 years.

 

Guhle  /  Reinbacher 

Hutson / Xhekaj 

Harris  /  Barron

 

That's a solid Dcore 

 

 

If they are so easy to get why haven’t we had any 40 goal scorers since the 90’s, any 50 goal scorers since the 80’s, any 90 point guy since the early/mid 90’s, no 100 point guy since the mid 80’s. If I remember correctly, Kovolev is our first 80 point guy since Damphousse who got 80 in 96’ or 97’.

 

yeah it’s really easy to get goal scorers and offensive players through free agency and trades🙄

 

on the other hand we’ve had Markov, Subban, and Weber as top dmen. Theodore and Price as Hart winning goalies. But offense is so much easier to find🙄

 

[hab29RETIRED]

52 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

By every scouting report I’ve seen Michkov is the second best player in the draft, talent-wise.  

I’m glad Montreal didn’t pick him.  With him signing in Russia, I believe there’s legitimate concern that once that 3-year deal is up he may just stay in Russia.  Then nearly any other player is a better pick.

Well the Russian contract woul have at least saves us from rushing him into the NHL!

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

By every scouting report I’ve seen Michkov is the second best player in the draft, talent-wise.  

I’m glad Montreal didn’t pick him.  With him signing in Russia, I believe there’s legitimate concern that once that 3-year deal is up he may just stay in Russia.  Then nearly any other player is a better pick.

Posts like this are dangerous because the entire merit hedges on the reality that Michkov does indeed stay in Russia.

It can sway an opinion heavily but what you say may not come to fruition. 

I believe he’ll come oversees but again it’s simply an opinion.

 

I am rooting for Reinbacher and anyone who dawns a Habs jersey but did not like the pick. He’ll be a good defenseman but I would have preferred Michkov. 
 

Hughes was asked what he views as Reinbacher’s ceiling and he responded a #2 D. While he could be saying this to alleviate some pressure from the young man’s shoulders, what would Briere’s response be if asked about Michkov’s ceiling? 
 

Even the fact that his name is coming up in this thread has to mean something.
 

I won’t beat a dead horse anymore but this is my opinion and we’ll see how things play out. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

8 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well the Russian contract woul have at least saves us from rushing him into the NHL!

 

hahahahahaaaa, good point

[DON]

11 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well the Russian contract woul have at least saves us from rushing him into the NHL!

Agree, save them from themselves.

 

I think all would give Habs mgmt a pretty low grade for prospect development last season?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

14 minutes ago, DON said:

Agree, save them from themselves.

 

I think all would give Habs mgmt a pretty low grade for prospect development last season?

 

They badly mishandled Slaf. 

 

The rest, I’m less certain about (apart from the injury factor, which presumably has less to do with MSL/HuGo than the training staff).

[Sir_Boagalott]

1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Can't believe they're people not liking this pick SMH. Last five team's to win the cup all had big strong two way Dman on the there D.  We draft a big need that's hard to come by, a big strong RHD.

 

  Goal scorers are easy to draft, trade for, sign in free agency.  

 

Man our D is going to be one tough Dcore in the next few years maybe the best we have ever had in the last 30 years.

 

Guhle  /  Reinbacher 

Hutson / Xhekaj 

Harris  /  Barron

 

That's a solid Dcore 

 

 

 

The majority of people were initially in shock at the Habs picking at dman at 5th in what is reported to be the deepest offensive talent draft in decades and possibly of all time.  I certainly was.  

 

Reinbacher will turn out to be super good and high end RHD are hard to find so at least there is solace in selecting him.  Before the draft, I was already thinking that in 2-3 years the Habs defense would be the envy of many teams.  They certainly solidified that by taking Reinbacher.  

 

However, the Habs could have settled with and attempted to go after the 2nd best RHD in the draft.  After all, it's not like a RHD was the Habs only need.  

 

An alternate acceptable outcome could have been swapping the 5th pick to Nash for Askarov and thier 15th pick and selecting the 2nd best RHD Sandin Pellikka.  Doing that trade would have also prevented the Habs from picking 3 goalies and instead used those picks to select 3 F that are 6' 3"+ 200lbs+.  

 

  

 

 

[Habsfan89]

56 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If they are so easy to get why haven’t we had any 40 goal scorers since the 90’s, any 50 goal scorers since the 80’s, any 90 point guy since the early/mid 90’s, no 100 point guy since the mid 80’s. If I remember correctly, Kovolev is our first 80 point guy since Damphousse who got 80 in 96’ or 97’.

 

yeah it’s really easy to get goal scorers and offensive players through free agency and trades🙄

 

on the other hand we’ve had Markov, Subban, and Weber as top dmen. Theodore and Price as Hart winning goalies. But offense is so much easier to find🙄

 

Management has never made any trades to try a get a top goal scorer when they become available because we haven't had the depth in our system to make those trades. Also never put up the money in free agency to sign one either. 

 

With the type of talent we have in our system now in the next 2-3 years we will be able to make those type of trades to add to this core group.

 

Just look at the golden knights for example,

Traded for Echel, Stone 

 

Florida traded for tkachuk 

 

Those players do come available 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Posted this in the other thread but I’ll post it here too:

[DON]

All well and good, but still wont be a top ten NHL scorer, that the Habs havent had for 50 years, but sounds dandy.

Maybe next years draft they they can find an elite all-star forward? 

 

“He is probably the best defenceman within the Montreal organization.”

The prospect model currently places him level with Lane Hutson, but Chatel notes that it took Hutson an extra year and a record-breaking NCAA season to achieve this parity.

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/david-reinbacher-scouting-report-analytics-thubaud-chatel-finding-eliteness-beyond-scoresheet-projection-montreal-canadiens-defence-lane-hutson/

 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/montreal-canadiens-2023-nhl-draft-grade-analysis-score-reinbacher-fowler-konyushkov-xhekaj-harris-eriksson/

 

https://theathletic.com/4654503/2023/06/29/canadiens-nhl-draft-reinbacher-free-agency/

"The asset Bobrov is referring to is having a big, physical, smooth-skating top pair defenceman. But there are other assets that help a team win in the spring. Elite-level compete like Ryan Leonard and dynamic scoring like Matvei Michkov would definitely fall under that category. So why prioritize that one asset over other, perhaps equally important ones?"

 

[Habsfan]

Now that the shock factor is no longer an issue, I don't have a problem with this pick. I just hope that MIchkov or Leonard won't become superstars in the league.

 

I think Reinbacher will be a good second pairing D-man who can play big minutes. Who knows, maybe he and Hutson will be our #1 and #2 for many years to come on the first pairing!

 

As with every draft, time will tell!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Management has never made any trades to try a get a top goal scorer when they become available because we haven't had the depth in our system to make those trades. Also never put up the money in free agency to sign one either. 

 

With the type of talent we have in our system now in the next 2-3 years we will be able to make those type of trades to add to this core group.

 

Just look at the golden knights for example,

Traded for Echel, Stone 

 

Florida traded for tkachuk 

 

Those players do come available 

 

 

First, when you’re at ground zero of a rebuild, you don’t ship out picks/prospects to make those deals, and you also tend not to have elite veterans to send back either. The trades you mention were made by contending teams looking to add the final piece. Your post seems to have forgotten that we are rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile, Cole Caufield bids fair to be a 50-goal scorer in this league. I don’t see why he suddenly doesn’t count. And BTW we still don’t know what Slaf’s ceiling is. 

 

I notice that **part** of the backlash against DR seems to be this preoccupation with elite FWs - some sort of apparent bias that forwards are more important than elite defencemen. This is often accompanied by a lament that we haven’t had an elite FW for 40 years. As though this is in any way relevant to the question of who the Habs should draft in 2023.

 

Francise defencemen are even more valuable IMHO than franchise FWs. They drive offence from the back end as well as controlling play in the defensive end. If we can get some really good defenders, we will see guys like Suzuki and CC (and Slaf) becoming even more productive.

 

My only concern with this pick is that DR’s ceiling is ambiguous. If we passed on ‘franchise’ FWs in order to draft a guy who is not a ‘franchise’ defenceman, then that’s a clear error. If he becomes a serious #1 guy, then there’s no way this pick was a mistake unless Michkov becomes an out and out superstar.

 

 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

First, when you’re at ground zero of a rebuild, you don’t ship out picks/prospects to make those deals, and you also tend not to have elite veterans to send back either. The trades you mention were made by contending teams looking to add the final piece. Your post seems to have forgotten that we are rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile, Cole Caufield bids fair to be a 50-goal scorer in this league. I don’t see why he suddenly doesn’t count. And BTW we still don’t know what Slaf’s ceiling is. 

 

I notice that **part** of the backlash against DR seems to be this preoccupation with elite FWs - some sort of apparent bias that forwards are more important than elite defencemen. This is often accompanied by a lament that we haven’t had an elite FW for 40 years. As though this is in any way relevant to the question of who the Habs should draft in 2023.

 

Francise defencemen are even more valuable IMHO than franchise FWs. They drive offence from the back end as well as controlling play in the defensive end. If we can get some really good defenders, we will see guys like Suzuki and CC (and Slaf) becoming even more productive.

 

My only concern with this pick is that DR’s ceiling is ambiguous. If we passed on ‘franchise’ FWs in order to draft a guy who is not a ‘franchise’ defenceman, then that’s a clear error. If he becomes a serious #1 guy, then there’s no way this pick was a mistake unless Michkov becomes an out and out superstar.

 

 

 

 

 

Great post, agree with all your points. If Reinbacher becomes a 1st pairing defenseman for 12-15 years then this is a good pick. Aiden Hill looked like a stud with a great group of defensemen in front of him. 

 

I am also looking forward to see how Slaf does this year, he is a year older, stronger and hopefully wiser. 

[huzer]

Man, Hughes has been pretty tight lipped overall. That creates a problem that when he DOES speak to the media, every nuance, every syllable, everything is interpreted and reinterpreted a million times. 

 

Anyway, I 100% don't care how any other prospect not drafted by the Habs turns out. If Reinbacher progresses as the Habs scouts and staff believe he will, the team will have a stud man for years to come. If both Reinbacher AND Michkov have successful careers, cool, I guess. It seems many fans are basing the success of Montreal's pick on the potential failure of the Flyers pick.

 

[GHT120]

The references to "culture" in the post-draft de-brief by Lapointe & Bobrov makes me think that ***MAY*** have also played a role in the Habs passing on Michkov ... I see culture as different than MB's famous "character" ... character is about an individual ... culture is about an organization ... while a player with character issues obviously doesn't contribute to a good culture, even a player with no character issues could not be the right fit for a good culture.

[Neech]

It sounds like Michkov wanted to be drafted by the Flyers and angled to get himself there. Maybe he gave the Habs management the impression that he didn't want to join us.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

The references to "culture" in the post-draft de-brief by Lapointe & Bobrov makes me think that ***MAY*** have also played a role in the Habs passing on Michkov ... I see culture as different than MB's famous "character" ... character is about an individual ... culture is about an organization ... while a player with character issues obviously doesn't contribute to a good culture, even a player with no character issues could not be the right fit for a good culture.

 

Most teams talk about “culture,” just as they talk about “character.” 

 

I’m leery of putting too much weight on it - especially when applied to 18-year-olds.

 

I prefer to think about “culture” and “character” mainly in negative terms, i.e., disaster avoidance. If you have a kid who is obviously stupid, or obviously overflowing with bad attitude then clearly you should devalue him even if he is super-talented. (Remember David Fischer? Galchenyuk, with his daddy issues, might have been another example).

 

Where I think it gets dodgier is if it becomes a more demanding “positive” criterion. “We are looking for players whom we deem to be good ‘fits’ with Montreal, and will choose an inferior talent if we think that player demonstrates the attributes we have assigned as suited to our ‘culture.’” So, great, you end up with a less talented team, because a bunch of hockey guys have decided to play amateur psychologist. 🙄 Or, you get a management group with an irrational hate-on for a fabulous player (hello, PK Subban) because he doesn’t fit their biases about what “character” or “culture” (or skin colour) are supposed to look like. 

 

So yes, some sense of the human being you’re drafting is beneficial. But making it a top criterion is troubling IMHO. 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

First, when you’re at ground zero of a rebuild, you don’t ship out picks/prospects to make those deals, and you also tend not to have elite veterans to send back either. The trades you mention were made by contending teams looking to add the final piece. Your post seems to have forgotten that we are rebuilding.

 

Meanwhile, Cole Caufield bids fair to be a 50-goal scorer in this league. I don’t see why he suddenly doesn’t count. And BTW we still don’t know what Slaf’s ceiling is. 

 

I notice that **part** of the backlash against DR seems to be this preoccupation with elite FWs - some sort of apparent bias that forwards are more important than elite defencemen. This is often accompanied by a lament that we haven’t had an elite FW for 40 years. As though this is in any way relevant to the question of who the Habs should draft in 2023.

 

Francise defencemen are even more valuable IMHO than franchise FWs. They drive offence from the back end as well as controlling play in the defensive end. If we can get some really good defenders, we will see guys like Suzuki and CC (and Slaf) becoming even more productive.

 

My only concern with this pick is that DR’s ceiling is ambiguous. If we passed on ‘franchise’ FWs in order to draft a guy who is not a ‘franchise’ defenceman, then that’s a clear error. If he becomes a serious #1 guy, then there’s no way this pick was a mistake unless Michkov becomes an out and out superstar.

 

 

 

 

For me the main reason for the unhappiness with thr puck is that this was hailed as a forward rich draft, where there was no obvious dman in the top 10. Picking tip 5, it looked promising that we can finally stick up on elite forwards, and get back to having a speedy high scoring team with. Lot of scoring depth. For the most part we’ve been a team with one or two 20-35 goal scorers and if they were shut down, we had to hope on shutout hockey from our goalies.

we have Caufield, Suzuki and hopefully Slafkovsky and Dach will be productive forwards. It would have been nice to have added a Leonard or Michkov to solidly the forwards. 
 

It’s not obvious that DR will be a franchise dman. What’s scary is you have a guy who was unranked last September, and gets picked 5th. A Slafkovsky wasn’t quite as unknown, but wasn’t expected to be top 5 and we took him first. So two years in a row we take guys that came out of nowhere very early. Either HuGo are going to be seen as brilliant in 3 years, or guys who outsmarted themselves.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

41 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

. What’s scary is you have a guy who was unranked last September, and gets picked 5th. A Slafkovsky wasn’t quite as unknown, but wasn’t expected to be top 5 and we took him first. So two years in a row we take guys that came out of nowhere very early. Either HuGo are going to be seen as brilliant in 3 years, or guys who outsmarted themselves.

 

 

 

Yep, I agree with this. They have an affinity for "risers" in a draft year and are charting their own, idiosyncratic course to drafting. I've worried for a while about that tendency to outsmart themselves. We'll see if they turn out to be brilliant, or too clever by half.

[DON]

An ok top 4 d-man (Markov, Subban, Weber) Habs have had and how did that play out? 

Fizzed in the playoffs, because forwards couldnt score enough.

Habs havent had a top ten scorer since the 80s, how is their track record for success in that time?

They "maybe' have 1 forward in the top 50 at the moment (Suzuki tied for 70th in NHL scoring last year).

Reinbacher isnt expected to be a Hughes or Makar; he should be a solid defender and we can only hope his offense is better than projected.

An elite scorer like the lil russian fit the bill, oh well see how he does in Philly.

 

[huzer]

31 minutes ago, DON said:

An ok top 4 d-man (Markov, Subban, Weber) Habs have had and how did that play out? 

Fizzed in the playoffs, because forwards couldnt score enough.

Habs havent had a top ten scorer since the 80s, how is their track record for success in that time?

They "maybe' have 1 forward in the top 50 at the moment (Suzuki tied for 70th in NHL scoring last year).

Reinbacher isnt expected to be a Hughes or Makar; he should be a solid defender and we can only hope his offense is better than projected.

An elite scorer like the lil russian fit the bill, oh well see how he does in Philly.

 

 

Well, he outscored Roman Josi in his draft year in the Swiss League. Had the most points for a draft eligible player in the Swiss League since Auston Matthews. Most points ever for a draft eligible Swiss League defender.  I'm not ready to write him off yet as just a defensive defenseman.

 

Vegas no top 50 scorers last year, Avs no top ten the year before, TBL, no top 30 scorer the year before. McDavid/Draisaitl top 5 scorers the last 5 years, where has that gotten them?

 

It's interesting the people have already anointed Michkov as "an elite scorer" without ever having played in the league. He very likely could be another Yakupov. Fail for Nail!

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

For me the main reason for the unhappiness with thr puck is that this was hailed as a forward rich draft, where there was no obvious dman in the top 10. Picking tip 5, it looked promising that we can finally stick up on elite forwards, and get back to having a speedy high scoring team with. Lot of scoring depth. For the most part we’ve been a team with one or two 20-35 goal scorers and if they were shut down, we had to hope on shutout hockey from our goalies.

we have Caufield, Suzuki and hopefully Slafkovsky and Dach will be productive forwards. It would have been nice to have added a Leonard or Michkov to solidly the forwards. 
 

It’s not obvious that DR will be a franchise dman. What’s scary is you have a guy who was unranked last September, and gets picked 5th. A Slafkovsky wasn’t quite as unknown, but wasn’t expected to be top 5 and we took him first. So two years in a row we take guys that came out of nowhere very early. Either HuGo are going to be seen as brilliant in 3 years, or guys who outsmarted themselves.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s not obvious that DR will be a franchise dman. What’s scary is you have a guy who was unranked last September, and gets picked 5th. A Slafkovsky wasn’t quite as unknown, but wasn’t expected to be top 5 and we took him first. So two years in a row we take guys that came out of nowhere very early. Either HuGo are going to be seen as brilliant in 3 years, or guys who outsmarted themselves.

 

 

 

It's not obvious he will be a franchise dman, it's rarely that obvious when they are 18 but they are making a bet that he has skills, the smarts and work ethic to develop into a top pairing defensman. Larry Robinson was drafted 20th, who thought at the time he would become dominant. Time will tell. It's not scary at all to me he was unranked last September, everyone develops at a different rate.  He is a tall lanky kid, sometimes big guys take longer.  Shane Wright was a generational talent at 16 and then 3 teams passed him over. Perhaps his development started early and ended early. Not always easy trying to project how much more a prospect will continue to develop.  

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

32 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

Well, he outscored Roman Josi in his draft year in the Swiss League. Had the most points for a draft eligible player in the Swiss League since Auston Matthews. Most points ever for a draft eligible Swiss League defender.  I'm not ready to write him off yet as just a defensive defenseman.

 

Vegas no top 50 scorers last year, Avs no top ten the year before, TBL, no top 30 scorer the year before. McDavid/Draisaitl top 5 scorers the last 5 years, where has that gotten them?

 

It's interesting the people have already anointed Michkov as "an elite scorer" without ever having played in the league. He very likely could be another Yakupov. Fail for Nail!

Not only have they anointed him... they've never even seen him play a game...

 

With that said. I wanted him 

[hab29RETIRED]

45 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

Well, he outscored Roman Josi in his draft year in the Swiss League. Had the most points for a draft eligible player in the Swiss League since Auston Matthews. Most points ever for a draft eligible Swiss League defender.  I'm not ready to write him off yet as just a defensive defenseman.

 

Vegas no top 50 scorers last year, Avs no top ten the year before, TBL, no top 30 scorer the year before. McDavid/Draisaitl top 5 scorers the last 5 years, where has that gotten them?

 

It's interesting the people have already anointed Michkov as "an elite scorer" without ever having played in the league. He very likely could be another Yakupov. Fail for Nail!

Vegas had stone who was injured and came back from the playoffs, Eichal, who had his coming out party during his he playoffs, along with a the Conn smythe winner. They had three guys who scored 20+ goals, but have three guys who are legit 30+ goal scorers if healthy and 4 others that are good bets for 20+ goals. Lots of skill and depth. Eichel will probably be a 85-100 pt guy next year. We don’t have that type of player.