Permanent Rumour Thread

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

57 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Hmm…what do we on HW think he’s worth?

That's is a great question. I have no frigging clue. What I know is this. If we sign him to a lucrative deal then he will turn out to be a bust. If we let him go then he will turn into a stud somewhere else. Goalies are so unpredictable and hard to figure out. 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Hmm…what do we on HW think he’s worth?

2 yrs $2.9-3.2M ... still a lot to prove ... when I look at his eyes (when they zoom for a closeup) I just don't see someone who believes in himself.

[hab29RETIRED]

51 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

2 yrs $2.9-3.2M ... still a lot to prove ... when I look at his eyes (when they zoom for a closeup) I just don't see someone who believes in himself.

I wouldn’t want to commit more than that. Too many flag in the pan goalies. We can’t afford to make a mistake and be in an Edmonton situation. Pre-cap when teams made mistakes on one or two year wonders, it was only a financial impact. Now those types of mistakes on a key position like goaltending can kill you. If he doesn’t want to do a reasonable 2-3 year deal, then let’s move him. We have time to find the goalie of the future, and I’m not sold that he’s it.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

That's is a great question. I have no frigging clue. What I know is this. If we sign him to a lucrative deal then he will turn out to be a bust. If we let him go then he will turn into a stud somewhere else. Goalies are so unpredictable and hard to figure out. 

 

Ha ha, I respect your hard-won pessimism, my friend.

 

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I wouldn’t want to commit more than that. Too many flag in the pan goalies. We can’t afford to make a mistake and be in an Edmonton situation. Pre-cap when teams made mistakes on one or two year wonders, it was only a financial impact. Now those types of mistakes on a key position like goaltending can kill you. If he doesn’t want to do a reasonable 2-3 year deal, then let’s move him. We have time to find the goalie of the future, and I’m not sold that he’s it.

 

I’m more concerned with term than number. We can probably carry a dud contract for another couple of years before it seriously starts to gum up the works for the teams Cup window. I also doubt that Monty’s number would constitute a “crippling” cap hit. 

 

Assuming he sustains his current play for the whole season, he will have put together two consecutive quality seasons as a starter. It’s possible to be TOO risk averse. I’ve said before that he reminds me of Markstrom, i.e., a big guy who was a late-bloomer. Not that he is as good as Markstrom was at his peak, or that we should pay him anything close to Markstrom’s dumb contract. But 3 X 3 wouldn’t be unreasonable IMHO.

[hab29RETIRED]

24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ha ha, I respect your hard-won pessimism, my friend.

 

 

I’m more concerned with term than number. We can probably carry a dud contract for another couple of years before it seriously starts to gum up the works for the teams Cup window. I also doubt that Monty’s number would constitute a “crippling” cap hit. 

 

Assuming he sustains his current play for the whole season, he will have put together two consecutive quality seasons as a starter. It’s possible to be TOO risk averse. I’ve said before that he reminds me of Markstrom, i.e., a big guy who was a late-bloomer. Not that he is as good as Markstrom was at his peak, or that we should pay him anything close to Markstrom’s dumb contract. But 3 X 3 wouldn’t be unreasonable IMHO.

I’d be fine with 3x3, but would want to go over that. I’d prefer $3mx2, if we can’t move Allen - Montembeault isn’t giving a good vibe so far. Analytics are  decent, but he hasn’t come up with the timely saves when needed as much this year. 

 

Goalies are hard to love if they play like crap and are signed for too long and too much. 

The 25/26 and 26/27 seasons are the ones we need to make a serious push for the playoffs and MAY be ready to make a NJD like progression. Having lousy goaltending and inability to move them will be an issue to take that next step if we don’t find the right goalie by then. I also don’t want a 3 goalie situation like this year. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

On Saturday the CBC cast (I believe Eliott Friedman) said that the Habs were working on Montembault’s contract and eager to extend him and then cited his better than expected save percentage when faced with high danger situations.

 

Personally while I generally back all of our players, I would prefer sticking with Allen and Primeau as a tandem if I had to choose. I’m not a big fan of Montembeault, even though I understand I’m in the minority. I haven’t been a big Primeau fan over the years either but he’s somewhat impressed me this year. It seems as though he is playing every game as though “it’s his chance” this year.

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

On Saturday the CBC cast (I believe Eliott Friedman) said that the Habs were working on Montembault’s contract and eager to extend him and then cited his better than expected save percentage when faced with high danger situations.

 

Personally while I generally back all of our players, I would prefer sticking with Allen and Primeau as a tandem if I had to choose. I’m not a big fan of Montembeault, even though I understand I’m in the minority. I haven’t been a big Primeau fan over the years either but he’s somewhat impressed me this year. It seems as though he is playing every game as though “it’s his chance” this year.

I don't see ANY of our three goalies as the long-term solution.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Neither do I. I already stated when people were wishing Price out of the net that we may not have another goalie like him for another 20 years. Boggles the mind that we have to go years without a legitimate starting goalie. 

[DON]

9 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Neither do I. I already stated when people were wishing Price out of the net that we may not have another goalie like him for another 20 years. Boggles the mind that we have to go years without a legitimate starting goalie. 

More mind boggling to me, is the lack of elite Hab forwards for past 35 years.

Kovalev had 1 'good' year, but wasnt even top ten in scoring.

 

etc 

etc

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, DON said:

More mind boggling to me, is the lack of elite Hab forwards for past 35 years.

Kovalev had 1 'good' year, but wasnt even top ten in scoring.

 

etc 

etc

 

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

Give them some time. Getting elite talent is not easy. Every draft pick is a project that needs to develop.

[GHT120]

18 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

 

Who should they traded last season to "tank" ... their top three scorers (NS, CC, Dach) weren't going to be traded and next best was the then untradeable Mike Hoffman with 34 points ... they went with 3-6 (depending on injuries) young, or AHL quality, defencemen ... various veterans were hurt for much of the season and therefore untradeable ... Montembeault was likely the reason they weren't in the 58-60 point mix in the bottom four of the league.

[REV-G]

Personally given their age, I would trade Jake Allen and keep the two younger guys. I think this may be our close to last opportunity to get something for him. He's still playing well but age and injuries are certainly in play here. 

 

Why trade a younger guy when they seem to be able to do the job right now, although Primeau still has a pretty small sample size. He may be ready to blossom. But with goalies, you never know. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

56 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

 

It’s too early to be definitive, but I’ve had this concern about HuGo as well, i.e. a possible tendency to be too clever by half. The MSL hiring and the Dach trade show what can happen when it works out, but both Slaf and Reinbacher (as well as WiFi II) were cases of the Habs drafting a guy at a position where a lot of other teams and experts wouldn’t and essentially saying to the hockey world, “our special insight sees a higher ceiling here than you do.” Hopefully they are correct.

 

Regarding a goalie - one thing the Habs have ALWAYS been able to do, historically, is cherchez le gardien. It’s not just the Drydens, Roys, and Prices, but it’s also the Halaks and Steve Pennys, not to mention the Denis Herrons and Brian Haywards and Cristobal Huets. Even now, on a smaller scale, HuGo plucked Monty off waivers and have themselves a legitimate NHL starter (a move for which they don’t get enough credit). Of course this is no guarantee that we will find the backstop for our contending years, but history sure is on our side there. We have NEVER been the Oilers in this respect.

 

Star talent up front? Cole Caufield is our best bet in decades to become a regular threat to crack the top-10 in scoring. At least Bergevin/Timmins got something right.

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

15 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s too early to be definitive, but I’ve had this concern about HuGo as well, i.e. a possible tendency to be too clever by half. The MSL hiring and the Dach trade show what can happen when it works out, but both Slaf and Reinbacher (as well as WiFi II) were cases of the Habs drafting a guy at a position where a lot of other teams and experts wouldn’t and essentially saying to the hockey world, “our special insight sees a higher ceiling here than you do.”

 

Are you saying they should have taken the consensus #1 pick and generational talent Shane Wright. That's why teams have scouting departments. Reinbacher was a fast mover up the rankings and way way too early to make any judgements about him.

[alfredoh2009]

26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s too early to be definitive, but I’ve had this concern about HuGo as well, i.e. a possible tendency to be too clever by half. The MSL hiring and the Dach trade show what can happen when it works out, but both Slaf and Reinbacher (as well as WiFi II) were cases of the Habs drafting a guy at a position where a lot of other teams and experts wouldn’t and essentially saying to the hockey world, “our special insight sees a higher ceiling here than you do.” Hopefully they are correct.

 

Regarding a goalie - one thing the Habs have ALWAYS been able to do, historically, is cherchez le gardien. It’s not just the Drydens, Roys, and Prices, but it’s also the Halaks and Steve Pennys, not to mention the Denis Herrons and Brian Haywards and Cristobal Huets. Even now, on a smaller scale, HuGo plucked Monty off waivers and have themselves a legitimate NHL starter (a move for which they don’t get enough credit). Of course this is no guarantee that we will find the backstop for our contending years, but history sure is on our side there. We have NEVER been the Oilers in this respect.

 

Star talent up front? Cole Caufield is our best bet in decades to become a regular threat to crack the top-10 in scoring. At least Bergevin/Timmins got something right.

 

 

 

I agree with you, but would like to point out Montembeault was one of the last moves by MB:

2021-10-02

Canadiens

• Sam Montembeault

claimed off waivers (from FLA)

2021-11-28 Canadiens • Marc Bergevin fired as vice president and general manager

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Are you saying they should have taken the consensus #1 pick and generational talent Shane Wright. That's why teams have scouting departments. Reinbacher was a fast mover up the rankings and way way too early to make any judgements about him.

 

I also question picking Mesar.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Who should they traded last season to "tank" ... their top three scorers (NS, CC, Dach) weren't going to be traded and next best was the then untradeable Mike Hoffman with 34 points ... they went with 3-6 (depending on injuries) young, or AHL quality, defencemen ... various veterans were hurt for much of the season and therefore untradeable ... Montembeault was likely the reason they weren't in the 58-60 point mix in the bottom four of the league.

 

He just criticizes them to criticize.  The actual criticism lacks any merit.  They didnt get connor bedard, fire the GM and VP.  Bring back Bergy and Dom Ducharme.

[Commandant]

As for Monty, i think a deal in the 3-3.5 mill range is good.

 

If you look around the league there are fewer and fewer teams going with the workhorse #1 goalie anymore.  Most have tandems with the 2nd goalie playing 35-40 games.

 

Monty has shown he can definitely be part of that kind of tandem.  Now we have to find the second cause allen isnt getting younger and i dont know is that guy now, never mind in 2 years.  Primeau doesnt seem to be either.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, REV-G said:

Personally given their age, I would trade Jake Allen and keep the two younger guys. I think this may be our close to last opportunity to get something for him. He's still playing well but age and injuries are certainly in play here. 

 

Why trade a younger guy when they seem to be able to do the job right now, although Primeau still has a pretty small sample size. He may be ready to blossom. But with goalies, you never know. 

Another team has to want a 33-yr-old, average, $3.85M AAV goalie with another year on his contract.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

HuGo swing for the fences and focus the search on elite talent. 

 

Bergevin played it safer, hoping to draft character guys that would make it to the NHL. 
 

HuGo’s method will result in busts along the way but with the hope of finding that elite player - perhaps Dach, Slafkovsky, Reinbacker 

 

Bergevin’s method resulted in a glut of bottom 6 players. Caufield was a gift because folks were afraid of his size and Guhle was BPA. 
 

Habs need some elite players with skill  and I’m thankful that we aren’t drafting character players that can’t frigging score anymore 

[huzer]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that is my criticism of Hugh-Gort, they believe they are smarter than all other GMs by drafting "projects" and by not fully embracing the opportunity they had to tank and draft elite talent.

Slaf is progressing well and Reinbacker seems like a good choice but they do not seem to have star potential.

 

I hope I am wrong.

 

They've had two drafts. I'm willing to cut a little slack given the horrid draft pedigree of the team overall for the past 30 years or so. There also isn't enough time to judge either draft class.if they traded away every "decent" player.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on tanking, as drafting 1st overall and 5th overall is as pretty close to being bad as the team could've accomplished. Last year they didn't even have to trade anyone, as most of the players were hurt.

 

Drafting "swing and miss" players happens all of the time. Every single player in the draft is a project. People (not saying you) tend to be crazy impatient. From the '21 draft class, 20 players from that entire draft class have played at least 1 NHL game (almost half that number has played more than 10 games). From '22, 7 players have played more than 10 NHL games. People want 18 year old kids to step in and dominate (or show they have the potential to dominate) against established men playing in the NHL. Heck, even at the youth hockey level, where age brackets are 2 years, 1st year Bantam kids struggle with kids a year older.

 

Maybe the Habs should've been a little more patient with Kotkaniemi?

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Another team has to want a 33-yr-old, average, $3.85M AAV goalie with another year on his contract.

 

yes, a team that is in win-now mode and needs a solid backup goalie and/or is waiting for their #1 G to get back to top-form

[alfredoh2009]

Just now, Prime Minister Koivu said:

HuGo swing for the fences and focus the search on elite talent. 

 

Bergevin played it safer, hoping to draft character guys that would make it to the NHL. 
 

HuGo’s method will result in busts along the way but with the hope of finding that elite player - perhaps Dach, Slafkovsky, Reinbacker 

 

Bergevin’s method resulted in a glut of bottom 6 players. Caufield was a gift because folks were afraid of his size and Guhle was BPA. 
 

Habs need some elite players with skill  and I’m thankful that we aren’t drafting character players that can’t frigging score anymore 

 

I do not want Bergevin to come back, that ship has sailed.

 

I am just saying that the criticism I have of Hugh-Gort is the lack of elite prospects. They have taken a few swing-for-the-fences chances, and I hope they work out: but that strategy only goes so far.

 

Guhle was a safe, sure-fire, pick; and he is living up to expectations.

[GHT120]

11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

yes, a team that is in win-now mode and needs a solid backup goalie and/or is waiting for their #1 G to get back to top-form

 

AND ... has cap space ... 9 teams have less than $3.85M in cap space ... as do 9 of the 16 teams using LTIR ... and 4 of the other LTIR teams have their major LTIR-player returning this season (i.e., FULL cap hit returns with them) or are not "win-now" ... so 22 of the other 31 teams won't work without their making other moves, even if they wanted Allen ... point being, it is MUCH easier said than done.