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Kaberle to Montreal


Colin
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I don't see it as much of a gamble though. The worst case scenario just isn't that bad. So the Canadiens will have a bottom pairing d-man for 4.25M for a couple of years. The trade only looks risky if you stress about the cap implications two years from now.

You know who stresses about the salary cap? LOSERS.

You know who wins the Stanley Cup? Not losers.

That is my motto from now on. Despite all the frenzy over every signing and trade re: players getting overpaid and handcuffing us, I challenge people to name a single player we really wanted to keep that we had to let go of because we couldn't afford him at his market value. There were some (Komisarek, Streit, Wisniewski) that we wanted to keep but that wanted more money than we (almost everyone here) thought they were worth. Some of those decisions might have even been mistakes. There was Halak, who we traded because it wasn't sensible to pay him that much to be our back up (and other reasons). But there was never a case of a core player that we just had to get rid of so that we could keep our other core players.

It happened to other teams (Boston trading Kessel, Philly making all sorts of changes, maybe Buffalo and Ottawa) but only in extreme cases where teams carried several stars earning big money combined with albatross contracts, and their trades generally resulted in good returns consisting of high draft picks and blue chip prospects. By the time Montreal's up-and-coming stars get their market value, these contracts will be coming off the books or easier to move. There's just no sense in stressing over contracts when we have no idea what's going to happen over the next two years. Gauthier will make good trades, bad trades, big contracts will leave, big contracts will come, small contracts will leave, small contracts will go, the team will play well, they'll play poorly, individual players will play well, play poorly... The top teams think about the short term without making any obvious sacrifices to their long term plans (e.g. trading Pacioretty for Jagr).

Besides... Kaberle is coming off a 47 point season. It's too early to say he'll never be the player he once was. He's not like Gomez or Theodore, for who it's been several seasons now. He was a top pairing D last season! And currently on a hot streak.

BTH. A beacon in the darkness.

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I don't see it as much of a gamble though. The worst case scenario just isn't that bad. So the Canadiens will have a bottom pairing d-man for 4.25M for a couple of years. The trade only looks risky if you stress about the cap implications two years from now.

You know who stresses about the salary cap? LOSERS.

You know who wins the Stanley Cup? Not losers.

That is my motto from now on. Despite all the frenzy over every signing and trade re: players getting overpaid and handcuffing us, I challenge people to name a single player we really wanted to keep that we had to let go of because we couldn't afford him at his market value. There were some (Komisarek, Streit, Wisniewski) that we wanted to keep but that wanted more money than we (almost everyone here) thought they were worth. Some of those decisions might have even been mistakes. There was Halak, who we traded because it wasn't sensible to pay him that much to be our back up (and other reasons). But there was never a case of a core player that we just had to get rid of so that we could keep our other core players.

It happened to other teams (Boston trading Kessel, Philly making all sorts of changes, maybe Buffalo and Ottawa) but only in extreme cases where teams carried several stars earning big money combined with albatross contracts, and their trades generally resulted in good returns consisting of high draft picks and blue chip prospects. By the time Montreal's up-and-coming stars get their market value, these contracts will be coming off the books or easier to move. There's just no sense in stressing over contracts when we have no idea what's going to happen over the next two years. Gauthier will make good trades, bad trades, big contracts will leave, big contracts will come, small contracts will leave, small contracts will go, the team will play well, they'll play poorly, individual players will play well, play poorly... The top teams think about the short term without making any obvious sacrifices to their long term plans (e.g. trading Pacioretty for Jagr).

Besides... Kaberle is coming off a 47 point season. It's too early to say he'll never be the player he once was. He's not like Gomez or Theodore, for who it's been several seasons now. He was a top pairing D last season! And currently on a hot streak.

You, sir, deserve a medal!

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I'm going to miss Spacek's sense of humour in interviews. He was a funny guy. We can't forget how he and Hammer stepped up near season's end in 2010 and 2011 either. His contract was ridiculous and he had a tough time on the right side, but he wasn't the worst defenseman to don the cloth.

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First, let me say to BTH: Amen brother!

Secondly, I have to say that I was shocked by the reaction to this trade. This is the first time in a veerrrry long time that i read about a Habs trade and felt instinctively that Montreal had won the trade. The last trade that I think we won was Rivet to San Jose-- and no, I am not saying that this deal is similar.

However, what happened here was that PG sent an aging, injury prone, UFA 6-7th D-man to get a PP quarterback. He took a risk with the contract, sure, but he made a ballsy move to shore up the most obvious weakness on this team. If Kaberle produces those cap related complaints will evaporate.

Will it pay off ? I think it will, but who knows? If I could see the future I would already be retired with my lottery winnings or be the most successful GM in history. However, better a GM who takes a calculated gamble to boost the team, than one who sits back while we sink with a 28th ranked powerplay and enough one goal losses to make the most optimistic fan weep.

Some commentators see panic... I see a GM taking advantage of Carolina tanking. Btw, does anyone else think that Rutherford made a mistake in slagging TK after trading him?

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First, let me say to BTH: Amen brother!

Secondly, I have to say that I was shocked by the reaction to this trade. This is the first time in a veerrrry long time that i read about a Habs trade and felt instinctively that Montreal had won the trade. The last trade that I think we won was Rivet to San Jose-- and no, I am not saying that this deal is similar.

However, what happened here was that PG sent an aging, injury prone, UFA 6-7th D-man to get a PP quarterback. He took a risk with the contract, sure, but he made a ballsy move to shore up the most obvious weakness on this team. If Kaberle produces those cap related complaints will evaporate.

Will it pay off ? I think it will, but who knows? If I could see the future I would already be retired with my lottery winnings or be the most successful GM in history. However, better a GM who takes a calculated gamble to boost the team.

Some commentators see panic... I see a GM taking advantage of Carolina tanking. Btw, does anyone else think that Rutherford made a mistake in slagging TK after trading him?

The issue is not right now. It's next year. There is uncertainty with the CBA and we have way too many players to re-sign with such a limited cap space. What if getting Kaberle means having to let Gorges walk. Is it still a win for the Habs?

We now have $17 million in space to sign: Price, Subban, Gorges as our top 3 and then Kostitsyn, Eller, Emelin, Moen, Darche, White, Nokelainen, Diaz, Blunden.

We have some major issues to fill.

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Because there are no future trades possible?

Because there is no way of freeing up additional cap space?

Because your 17 million is based on the very, very, very unlikely scenario that the new CBA will be exactly the same as the old CBA; there will be no buyout amnesty or salary rollback, and not only that, but this will also be accompanied by no change in the NHL's 2011-12 revenues from what they were in 2010-11, even with moving one of the worst revenue teams to a decent market in Winnipeg? That 17 million is certainly gonna move one way or the other.... and if it reduces, there will certainly also be provisions in place for teams to deal with newly created cap problems.

Lastly you assume that all those guys will be brought back; or that we'll even want them back *cough* Darche *cough*

I think thats a lot of assumptions to make.

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Typically in today's culture we morgage our future and anticipate a windfall coming our way to bail us out. Yeah there are risks. It all comes done to what we get from Kaberle. I like the first game sampling. Montreal is getting healthy and will if they are smart move some money out come trade deadline time. It is not an onerous contract if he plays like he did Saturday. It is an onerous contract when you lump on top of other dead weigh. Let's get back in the race Thomas.

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The issue is not right now. It's next year. There is uncertainty with the CBA and we have way too many players to re-sign with such a limited cap space. What if getting Kaberle means having to let Gorges walk. Is it still a win for the Habs?

We now have $17 million in space to sign: Price, Subban, Gorges as our top 3 and then Kostitsyn, Eller, Emelin, Moen, Darche, White, Nokelainen, Diaz, Blunden.

We have some major issues to fill.

PG's ability to figure out how to solve those potential cap problems is a separate issue. As it stands right now, the team has the possibility of being significantly better this season. As has been said numerous times before, winning teams get the players that they believe will benefit them now and deal with the cap later. I am not going to worry about the Cap until it becomes a problem.

As I said, if Kaberle performs the cap space won't matter to most people. If he sucks, I am sure either he or gomez will find themselves elsewhere (Hamilton?) next season. Far better to give up Jaro who had no future with the team than a young player or a draft pick as has been our recent strategy.

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Because there are no future trades possible?

Because there is no way of freeing up additional cap space?

Because your 17 million is based on the very, very, very unlikely scenario that the new CBA will be exactly the same as the old CBA; there will be no buyout amnesty or salary rollback, and not only that, but this will also be accompanied by no change in the NHL's 2011-12 revenues from what they were in 2010-11, even with moving one of the worst revenue teams to a decent market in Winnipeg? That 17 million is certainly gonna move one way or the other.... and if it reduces, there will certainly also be provisions in place for teams to deal with newly created cap problems.

Lastly you assume that all those guys will be brought back; or that we'll even want them back *cough* Darche *cough*

I think thats a lot of assumptions to make.

Think: Penalty-Free Buyout Period. I wonder if PG knows something that we don't.

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It's funny how Gorges get's mixed in with Kaberle. I love what Josh brings to the team, but, if you think Kaberle has a hefty contract, imagine paying Josh more than 2.5 million per year. If a somebody offers him 4 million this summer, goodbye, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

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I still find the reaction to this trade shocking. It seems like more people are worried about some game named "cap-space" and not hockey. They prefer to watch an inferior product on the ice this year to having a proven PP specialist playing on the team in return for Spacek. Will the Habs win the Cup this year? Probably not, but at least I could potentially be more entertained watching the actual game on the ice. Everyone else can remain getting excited by spreadsheets and calculators.

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Usually when a defense man is acquired who put up 47 points and won a cup the year before, it is seen universally as a good thing. Especially when his best quality is running a powerplay, and to go to a team that is struggling with said powerplay. Not to mention sending the other way a player who is turning 38 and has injury problems. I don't really understand where all the negativity is coming from.

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It's funny how Gorges get's mixed in with Kaberle. I love what Josh brings to the team, but, if you think Kaberle has a hefty contract, imagine paying Josh more than 2.5 million per year. If a somebody offers him 4 million this summer, goodbye, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Agreed. What bugs me is that the Habs haven't locked him up already...why wait til the end of the year and risk losing him to a bigger offer somewhere else? Had the Habs signed Gorges last summer, they probably could've locked him up long term at an average of 3 million$ per year. If we wait til F-A period, Gorges WILL get an offer from another GM for 3.8-4 million$ per year. We'll either have to match it, or watch him go. (for nothing)

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There is no way you lock up Gorges for more than 3 mill a year. if someone is going to pay him more, good for him. Emelin can take his spot in the shot blocking, Pk and Emelin is alot more physical.

They also have 2 really good D prospects coming up.

Time will tell on Kaberle, just like it will if Markov ever plays again.

With the new CBA as others mentioned there will be a buyout period and probably a chance to role back salary in some form. Gomez contract will be gone for sure. They may need Kaberle the next 2 seasons to run the PP. Markov hasn't played in well over 2 years.

I am fine with Markov, Emelin and Kaberle as LD for the team. You Have Subban on the RD, Gorges in he is signed to a reasonable contract. Diaz and Camoli to round out that group is fine.

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Agreed. What bugs me is that the Habs haven't locked him up already...why wait til the end of the year and risk losing him to a bigger offer somewhere else? Had the Habs signed Gorges last summer, they probably could've locked him up long term at an average of 3 million$ per year. If we wait til F-A period, Gorges WILL get an offer from another GM for 3.8-4 million$ per year. We'll either have to match it, or watch him go. (for nothing)

Gorges can't sign till January, I think.

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There is no way you lock up Gorges for more than 3 mill a year. if someone is going to pay him more, good for him. Emelin can take his spot in the shot blocking, Pk and Emelin is alot more physical.

They also have 2 really good D prospects coming up.

Time will tell on Kaberle, just like it will if Markov ever plays again.

With the new CBA as others mentioned there will be a buyout period and probably a chance to role back salary in some form. Gomez contract will be gone for sure. They may need Kaberle the next 2 seasons to run the PP. Markov hasn't played in well over 2 years.

I am fine with Markov, Emelin and Kaberle as LD for the team. You Have Subban on the RD, Gorges in he is signed to a reasonable contract. Diaz and Camoli to round out that group is fine.

IF Kaberle plays up to the same form he has established over his career, and IF Markov comes back and plays like he can, we suddenly have one of the top bluelines in hockey, I think. Of course those are two pretty big 'ifs.' But given my belief that you win from the blueline out, there is the potential here for us to be a gigantic surprise come the playoffs. Hey, a guy can dream.

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IF Kaberle plays up to the same form he has established over his career, and IF Markov comes back and plays like he can, we suddenly have one of the top bluelines in hockey, I think. Of course those are two pretty big 'ifs.' But given my belief that you win from the blueline out, there is the potential here for us to be a gigantic surprise come the playoffs. Hey, a guy can dream.

Oh i so agree ! markov with boom kaberle and subban that is a very offensive d
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Emelin doesn't look like the same player on the right side. He is way better and more physical on the LD. They need to swap Gorges back to the RD.

Emelin's played 1 game on the right side. Lets give him some time to get his feet wet and adjust before we declare it a failure and break-up the number 1 pairing on the team by moving Gorges.

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