Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Smarts is the perfect word to describe Harris ... on and off the ice ... but because of his strong play last season his trade value might never be higher ... this season could prove he is a legit Top 4 defenceman on all but the deepest of NHL defence corps and boost his trade value higher, or it could show that he is a 5/6(even 7) on a playoff quality team and rop his value ... this is why HuGo et al get the big bucks ... they have to decide what they project Harris will become ... if other teams value Harris more highly then it might be time to trade him once an acceptable trade emerges.

I have always spoken very highly of Harris but where does he fit long term?

 

Matheson

Guhle

Harris/Xhekaj 

Norlinder 

 

Harris isn’t leap frogging Matheson nor Guhle. St. Louis seems hesitant to play him on the right side so he has to beat out Xhekaj and perhaps Norlinder. 
 

I think the Habs are really high on Xhekaj so does Harris have a long term spot?

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I have always spoken very highly of Harris but where does he fit long term?

 

Matheson

Guhle

Harris/Xhekaj 

Norlinder 

 

Harris isn’t leap frogging Matheson nor Guhle. St. Louis seems hesitant to play him on the right side so he has to beat out Xhekaj and perhaps Norlinder. 
 

I think the Habs are really high on Xhekaj so does Harris have a long term spot?

 

that has always been my point. He is good, similar situation to Romanov who enabled the Habs to get Dach. A good problem to have, IMHO

[Commandant]

3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

that has always been my point. He is good, similar situation to Romanov who enabled the Habs to get Dach. A good problem to have, IMHO

 

And we had two full seasons of Romanov in the NHL before trading him.

 

Again, you don't want to trade Tuukka  Rask, cause you have Justin Pogge.   Use the season to evaluate the defencemen on the team and then trade one.... it might be Harris, but you don't need to force the issue today.  Of course if another team makes an offer you can't refuse, you take it, but in the meantime you can evaluate the defenders and don't have to force a trade. 

[dlbalr]

14 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I kind of interpreted this as if Harris has no more room to grow, this is his ceiling despite being quite young still. 
 

After thinking about it, I think that’s accurate. 
 

I consider Harris a very good Dman. A second pairing guy on a bubble team or a third pairing on a playoff team. 
 

I don’t think his game will evolve, he will never have a better shot or become offensively gifted. He will always struggle against the biggest forwards. 
 

He will sharpen his breakout skills and hone his very strong Dzone game through experience but he is what he is. 
 

I wonder what Harris is worth on the market? 

 

The main concern I have with Harris is a lack of upside in the tools category.  His shot isn't going to magically become NHL-level.  He's not getting bigger or much stronger so there isn't much room left to fill out.  His speed is already above-average and I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement left there either.  And from an awareness standpoint, that element is already in place so again, not a lot of margin for improving.

 

Harris has shown he's an NHL-calibre player but he is who he is at this point; there is a lack of projectability remaining from a development perspective.  I think that would hinder him on the trade market as well, especially since a lot of teams are still gun-shy about smaller blueliners.  I don't think he's in the long-term plans for the Habs but at the same time, he probably has more value to them than a future draft pick that he might yield in a trade.  If that's the case, they might as well keep evaluating.

[Commandant]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

St. Louis seems hesitant to play him on the right side so he has to beat out Xhekaj and perhaps Norlinder. 

 

And Harris is starting the season at RD, which changes things.

[GHT120]

14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

And Harris is starting the season at RD, which changes things.

 

Or makes him more marketable.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

41 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

And Harris is starting the season at RD, which changes things.

I actually LOL when I saw tonight’s lines! Last season it was Xhekaj on the right. 

[dlbalr]

A trade proposal from a Sportsnet writer that actually doesn't seem half bad:

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/conor-garland-trade-destinations-four-proposals-for-canucks-to-consider/

 

Vancouver receives: Justin Barron 

Washington receives: Conor Garland 

Montreal receives: Anthony Mantha, Washington’s choice of 2024 or 2025 first-round pick

 

The recent injury to Savard probably makes this unlikely but if they decided that Barron wasn't part of the short-term future plans (going with, say, Reinbacher/Mailloux/Kovacevic on the right side), this would at least seem like a decent return with a first-rounder in there.  The narrative suggests he thinks Montreal would have to retain on Garland but if they're taking Mantha (who makes more) back, that shouldn't be necessary in theory.

[tomh009]

A mid-first rounder for Barron plus Mantha's salary dump? Is that good value for the Habs?

 

That means that Lehkonen + Mantha's salary would get us a first-rounder and a second-rounder.

[TurdBurglar]

I’ve also seen rumours of Armia for Mantha one for one.  Caps get a lower per year cap hit with 1 extra year, where Habs get a higher cap hit for this year only as Mantha’s deal expires this year.

 

I would say in that scenario Montreal wouldn’t likely retain any salary and tie up the last retention spot for an additional year.  I also don’t know enough about Washington’s situation to know if they would even have interest in Armia.  It was just a rumour I read.

[alfredoh2009]

57 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I’ve also seen rumours of Armia for Mantha one for one.  Caps get a lower per year cap hit with 1 extra year, where Habs get a higher cap hit for this year only as Mantha’s deal expires this year.

 

I would say in that scenario Montreal wouldn’t likely retain any salary and tie up the last retention spot for an additional year.  I also don’t know enough about Washington’s situation to know if they would even have interest in Armia.  It was just a rumour I read.

I don't know if others posted that too, but this was one of my proposals some time ago

[alfredoh2009]

Habs should trade one of the LDs in The system not named Guhle nor Matheson to the Jets for a forward with top-6 potential (Inhave not checked yet)

#RipeForThePicking

 

"I didn’t know I could cry so much."

Neal Pionk is playing hurt. The veteran #NHLJets defenceman has yet to miss a shift but is struggling mightily over the on-ice death of groomsman Adam Johnson.

We spoke about it in Arizona.

My story: https://t.co/KPl2SC33Ne

— Mike McIntyre (@mikemcintyrewpg) November 3, 2023

 

[dlbalr]

6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Habs should trade one of the LDs in The system not named Guhle nor Matheson to the Jets for a forward with top-6 potential (Inhave not checked yet)

#RipeForThePicking

 

You've proposed moving a LD to Winnipeg before.  But they have Morrissey, Samberg, Stanley, Chisholm, and Heinola on the roster already.  Why do they need a sixth? 

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

You've proposed moving a LD to Winnipeg before.  But they have Morrissey, Samberg, Stanley, Chisholm, and Heinola on the roster already.  Why do they need a sixth? 

Heinola is hurt, and in this article it seems like Pionk is playing hurt.

If I recall correctly, they have been allowing lots of goals against and loosing. 
Thus the proposal

Edited November 4, 2023 by alfredoh2009

[dlbalr]

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Heinola is hurt, and in this article it seems like Pionk is playing hurt.

If I recall correctly, they have been allowing lots of goals against and loosing. 
This the proposal

 

The article is about Pionk playing through the sadness of his friend dying; he's not playing through an injury.  He's also a RD so sending another LD doesn't fill that gap, even if there was one to fill.  Yes, Heinola is hurt but is worthy of playing when he's healthy so acquiring another LD to extend their LD logjam doesn't make sense.

[alfredoh2009]

Just now, dlbalr said:

 

The article is about Pionk playing through the sadness of his friend dying; he's not playing through an injury.  He's also a RD so sending another LD doesn't fill that gap, even if there was one to fill.  Yes, Heinola is hurt but is worthy of playing when he's healthy so acquiring another LD to extend the logjam doesn't make sense.

Ah! Thanks . Just going through the headlines in Twitter/X on my phone 

I don’t want to sit in front of the computer and dig the details, I need to do my honey-dos 

 

You are correct then, Jets should ride it out. I feel sorry for Pionk for his loss.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The IDEA of trading one of our D for a young FW is a good one. I believe it may become a necessity, given that Slaf is looking more and more like a wasted first overall pick (all part of the Habs' long and remarkably consistent tradition of blowing high-end picks), and Dach's future is cloudy. 

 

What I think we need to accept is that that trade will hurt. We're not getting a potential top-6 FW back for Harris. I can see a world where we ship Matheson to a contender for a high-ceiling FW prospect. Maybe not this season, but depending on how Guhle develops, that could become a necessity by, say, next season's deadline. 

 

A GM with a size fetish could perhaps be persuaded to cough up a legit FW prospect for WiFi, but I think WiFi will tend to be under-valued due to his lack of pedigree. His hockey skills are of the "sneaky skill" variety. Maybe Logan Mailloux or Barron, if they progress, could be moved for a quality FW. (I'm not trading Hutson under any circumstances and I hope Hughes feels the same).

 

But it's Matheson that could bring back a difference-making piece at FW, I think.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

59 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The IDEA of trading one of our D for a young FW is a good one. I believe it may become a necessity, given that Slaf is looking more and more like a wasted first overall pick (all part of the Habs' long and remarkably consistent tradition of blowing high-end picks), and Dach's future is cloudy. 

 

Slaf is just 19!  Way too early to give up on him. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Slaf is just 19!  Way too early to give up on him. 

 

I know, I know. My problem is that I have little experience of a young player (of any age) getting 50 NHL games and showing absolutely nothing who then goes on to become a heavy-duty impact player. CC looked awful under DD but also had games where he made a splash when he first came up. Even that jackass KK would go on little hot streaks. Slaf has never done anything. Maybe he's had three or four shifts of note in 50 games. Pezetta has way more than that.

 

I'm not saying the kid won't grow into a legitimate NHLer. But as I've noted before, if he were not a #1 overall pick, two things would be happening:

 

1. He would be in the AHL. 100% guaranteed.

2. Not a single person on this board would be vesting any major hopes in him, based on what he's shown. Rather we would be thinking that he might eventually become a quality third-liner eventually. We'd be looking forward to him growing into a physically intimidating grinder.

 

Slaf has not given us a single reason - other than his draft position - to think he will be a core piece on a contending team. He might grow into a useful complementary top-9 player at some point.

 

I hope I'm wrong. Like I say, my problem is that I cannot remember a kid playing this many NHL games and not showing a single thing, who then went on to become a star. I would LOVE to have this post thrown back in my face in 2-3 years when he's ripping it up as a terrifying power forward.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The IDEA of trading one of our D for a young FW is a good one. I believe it may become a necessity, given that Slaf is looking more and more like a wasted first overall pick (all part of the Habs' long and remarkably consistent tradition of blowing high-end picks), and Dach's future is cloudy. 

 

What I think we need to accept is that that trade will hurt. We're not getting a potential top-6 FW back for Harris. I can see a world where we ship Matheson to a contender for a high-ceiling FW prospect. Maybe not this season, but depending on how Guhle develops, that could become a necessity by, say, next season's deadline. 

 

A GM with a size fetish could perhaps be persuaded to cough up a legit FW prospect for WiFi, but I think WiFi will tend to be under-valued due to his lack of pedigree. His hockey skills are of the "sneaky skill" variety. Maybe Logan Mailloux or Barron, if they progress, could be moved for a quality FW. (I'm not trading Hutson under any circumstances and I hope Hughes feels the same).

 

But it's Matheson that could bring back a difference-making piece at FW, I think.

I don’t know why we would want to trade a D prospect YET. There is no hurry. Last thing I would want to do is trade a guy before we have a better idea of what he can/will become.

 

there's no hurry right now. There isn’t anyone in Laval that is an obvious call up at the current stage of their development. I also am pretty sure we will move Savard at the deadline.

 

the moves we should be making before trading a dman is Anderson and Dvorak. We have guys knocking at the door in Laval. The other move that will probably have to be made in the next 20 games is a goalie.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t know why we would want to trade a D prospect YET. There is no hurry. Last thing I would want to do is trade a guy before we have a better idea of what he can/will become.

 

there's no hurry right now. There isn’t anyone in Laval that is an obvious call up at the current stage of their development. I also am pretty sure we will move Savard at the deadline.

 

the moves we should be making before trading a dman is Anderson and Dvorak. We have guys knocking at the door in Laval. The other move that will probably have to be made in the next 20 games is a goalie.

 

No, no, I don't mean right now. In my post I suggest moving out Matheson at the end of next season's trade deadline. That's the timeline for this sort of decision, I think.

[huzer]

57 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I know, I know. My problem is that I have little experience of a young player (of any age) getting 50 NHL games and showing absolutely nothing who then goes on to become a heavy-duty impact player. CC looked awful under DD but also had games where he made a splash when he first came up. Even that jackass KK would go on little hot streaks. Slaf has never done anything. Maybe he's had three or four shifts of note in 50 games. Pezetta has way more than that.

 

I'm not saying the kid won't grow into a legitimate NHLer. But as I've noted before, if he were not a #1 overall pick, two things would be happening:

 

1. He would be in the AHL. 100% guaranteed.

2. Not a single person on this board would be vesting any major hopes in him, based on what he's shown. Rather we would be thinking that he might eventually become a quality third-liner eventually. We'd be looking forward to him growing into a physically intimidating grinder.

 

Slaf has not given us a single reason - other than his draft position - to think he will be a core piece on a contending team. He might grow into a useful complementary top-9 player at some point.

 

I hope I'm wrong. Like I say, my problem is that I cannot remember a kid playing this many NHL games and not showing a single thing, who then went on to become a star. I would LOVE to have this post thrown back in my face in 2-3 years when he's ripping it up as a terrifying power forward.

 

I'm with you, for the most part. Then I look and see from the '22 draft, only 11 players have played an NHL game, only 7 have recorded at least 1 point (Slaf is the highest scoring, but only because he's played significantly more, 49 games vs 13). Should he have seen those 49 games? Eh...

 

I will not pretend to be a scout, but when I try to focus on him specifically, I don't see a whole lot. Slaf and Newhook do not mesh, and despite MSL's stubbornness with that line, they need to try a different duo there.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/debate-over-slafkovsky-staying-with-canadiens-rages-after-loss-to-cooley-coyotes/

[hab29RETIRED]

30 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

No, no, I don't mean right now. In my post I suggest moving out Matheson at the end of next season's trade deadline. That's the timeline for this sort of decision, I think.

Ok. I agree with that. I don’t think we necessarily need to move Matheson - I don’t think it will depend on Reinbacher/Hutson’s readiness and development of our other young D. You do need to have a veteran D, and he is the only one I’d want we are ready to compete.
 

Next year I think is the first year that we can reasonably have a chance at being a playoff team if the kids continue to take steps forward, but the following year is when I think we need to get back in the playoffs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Ok. I agree with that. I don’t think we necessarily need to move Matheson - I don’t think it will depend on Reinbacher/Hutson’s readiness and development of our other young D. You do need to have a veteran D, and he is the only one I’d want we are ready to compete.
 

Next year I think is the first year that we can reasonably have a chance at being a playoff team if the kids continue to take steps forward, but the following year is when I think we need to get back in the playoffs.

 

The timeline of “next season’s deadline” is also sensible because we should know by then whether Dach is able to fully recover and pick up where he left off. If he doesn’t, then our need for an impact FW - preferably a C - will be magnified. If he does, then we will still likely need another young FW, but maybe not a guy of the calibre that a Matheson would bring back.

[hab29RETIRED]

7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The timeline of “next season’s deadline” is also sensible because we should know by then whether Dach is able to fully recover and pick up where he left off. If he doesn’t, then our need for an impact FW - preferably a C - will be magnified. If he does, then we will still likely need another young FW, but maybe not a guy of the calibre that a Matheson would bring back.

Agreed hopefully we’ll also have guys like Andersson, Roy, Mailloux, and norlinder all get 10-15 game looks by the end of this season.