alfredoh2009 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 14 hours ago, dlbalr said: They don't need McLeod? A 24-year-old centre near half a point a game (almost exclusively at even strength) is something they don't need? Isn't that exactly what they need, especially with Dach's injury issues and Dvorak/Evans being a year away from UFA eligibility? Beck's coming, yes, but spending some time in the minors would be beneficial; someone like McLeod would help allow that to happen. Well, disclaimer : I usually do these during coffee breaks during the workday. It’s for the enjoyment of going through the process. I do not know much about McLeod, but thought Monahan would be an upgrade; notably by being motivated from finally being in a genuinely cup contending team. For the Habs, they would have Evans and Stephens centering the bottom-6 . Next season, Suzuki-Dach-Dvorak-Evans should be the centres. McLeod would be a great update on Dvorak and the type of player the Habs would need but in my trade proposal and how I was thinking about it he would not fit that one transaction. but of course you make a great point. McLeod would be a good addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 the more I think about it... The more I think Hughes has got to try and score Zegras from Anaheim if available. An overpayment with picks likely necessary to get it done. He is a top 10-15 nhl player under 23 years old. these opportunities don't come by often if ever... 22 picks over the next 2 seasons including 3 x 1st & 2nd plus 4 x 3rd round picks 11 young D.man and few a forwards xRoy xMesar xGuindon Beck x Guhle x Hutson x Reinbacher x Xhekaj x Mailloux x Struble Harris Kovacevic Barron x Engstrom x Konyushkov Can a deal of Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris + 1st + 2nd +3rd get it done? Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris and 2 x 1st + 2nd? Thats an overpayment but our top 9 with Monahan re upped would be deadly and we could contend as soon as next year provided we stay healthy and Monty continues his progression CC Suzy Slav Zegras*(5.5M) Dach Newhook RA Monahan* (5M) Roy RHP Evans Armia Ylonen Dvorak* Gallagher* Pezzetta* Obviously 16 deep is not gonna fit under the CAP so moves will happen to mitigate the assets given up to get Zegras How long is Lane Hutson and Reinbacher gonna be in Laval before getting a shot in NHL if at all? Matheson Guhle Struble Kovacevic Xhekaj Mailloux Hutson Reinbacher Engstrom Harris* Barron* Savard* *need to sign or trade/move just my thoughts on adding this young star to the group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: the more I think about it... The more I think Hughes has got to try and score Zegras from Anaheim if available. An overpayment with picks likely necessary to get it done. He is a top 10-15 nhl player under 23 years old. these opportunities don't come by often if ever... 22 picks over the next 2 seasons including 3 x 1st & 2nd plus 4 x 3rd round picks 11 young D.man and few a forwards xRoy xMesar xGuindon Beck x Guhle x Hutson x Reinbacher x Xhekaj x Mailloux x Struble Harris Kovacevic Barron x Engstrom x Konyushkov Can a deal of Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris + 1st + 2nd +3rd get it done? Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris and 2 x 1st + 2nd? Thats an overpayment but our top 9 with Monahan re upped would be deadly and we could contend as soon as next year provided we stay healthy and Monty continues his progression CC Suzy Slav Zegras*(5.5M) Dach Newhook RA Monahan* (5M) Roy RHP Evans Armia Ylonen Dvorak* Gallagher* Pezzetta* Obviously 16 deep is not gonna fit under the CAP so moves will happen to mitigate the assets given up to get Zegras How long is Lane Hutson and Reinbacher gonna be in Laval before getting a shot in NHL if at all? Matheson Guhle Struble Kovacevic Xhekaj Mailloux Hutson Reinbacher Engstrom Harris* Barron* Savard* *need to sign or trade/move just my thoughts on adding this young star to the group I have no idea if your suggestions are fair value or not but I would do option #1 if that first was Calgary’s pick. It’s a lot to give up but it’s a great return and we could live without both Beck and Harris. Option #2 is too much for me to pay. Those firsts are very likely to be top 10 picks and that SHOULD result in two good players drafted and those two players could be stars. Beck and Harris are both quality players on top of that. Im curious what others think about the value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Can a deal of Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris + 1st + 2nd +3rd get it done? Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris and 2 x 1st + 2nd? There is a huge difference between giving up Beck or Tuch. I think Beck is much more highly valued and I would be hesitant to give him up in an already good package. I think package 1 without Beck is reasonable. Package 2 is too much if including 2 x 1st round picks. I wonder if Zegras is perhaps over valued because of the publicity he gets from his "Michigan" goals. He has talent but the most he has scored is 23 goals in a season so far which is not elite but he has been over 60 points twice. Perhaps others on this board who have followed his career more closely (ie. Commandant) can comment better on his value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Right now Zegras is the 60 point guy with a very poor defensive game which is why Anaheim wants to move him Do you think he takes the next step and becomes an 80-90 point per season game breaker? Do you think he improves his defensive game so that 60 points is enough and hes not a liability. The risk is that if one of the two above things doesn't happen, you are going through the Drouin experience all over again. He'll be flashy, put up some points, but not enough given his defensive deficiency erases most of his good things. If you could get him cheap it might be worth the try but if its really expensive I'd steer clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Zegras = the new PLD? Im not sure I want to do another Mark Recchi trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 There are other options if the only way to get Zegras is to overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Can a deal of Option 1: Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris + 1st + 2nd +3rd get it done? Option 2: Beck or Tuch + Barron or Harris and 2 x 1st + 2nd? Thats an overpayment ... (A) It has been often pointed out by people smarter than me that Anaheim is deep in blueline prospects (there is a reason they could afford to trade Drysdale), so I don't know that Barron or Harris have any significant value in a deal with them. (B) As Commandant says (above) "Right now Zegras is the 60 point guy with a very poor defensive game which is why Anaheim wants to move him" ... Option 2 is an absolute no go for me ... that is a MASSIVE overpayment ... it might be an offer made for McTavish and a 2025 swap of first rounders (***NOT*** that Anaheim would accept it) ... Option 1 is still I-M-O an overpayment but closer ... I think the 2nd & 3rd could be dropped ... but it is predicated on HuGo being confident that MSL, Adam Nicolas et al can elevate Zegras' defence to at least an "average" level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 12 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: There are other options if the only way to get Zegras is to overpay. The only way to get any young top 6 forward will be to overpay ... the question is whether Zegras is the right fit for the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 The point I'm stressing is the guy is only 22 and a top 10 U23 in the NHL currently to boot. He's put up back to back +60 points and we would be buying likely at the lowest point in his career thus far including a 6 week injury All the noise about him being a drouin or PDL is nonsense talk, a joke and just noise. Why cause he played hardball on a contract after back to back 60 point seasons? I just think a deal for a top 10 ranked U23 offensive talent just doesn't come around often if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 10 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: The point I'm stressing is the guy is only 22 and a top 10 U23 in the NHL currently to boot. He's put up back to back +60 points and we would be buying likely at the lowest point in his career thus far including a 6 week injury All the noise about him being a drouin or PDL is nonsense talk, a joke and just noise. Why cause he played hardball on a contract after back to back 60 point seasons? I just think a deal for a top 10 ranked U23 offensive talent just doesn't come around often if at all. It has nothing to do with his contract, and everything to do with his play on the ice. I don't know where you are getting him as top 10, unless its just pure points... cause his overall impact on the ice is not there, cause the defense drags it down. His defensive game is attrocious, and yes 60 points is good, but is he going to take that next step. It takes a leap of faith to believe he's going to improve significantly at both ends of the ice, otherwise your offers are overpays for a 60 point guy with bad defence. Could he improve? sure, but its not a sure thing. That 8th percentile in EV Defence (over 3 years) and 7th percentile (last season) is the issue. And 60 points isn't enough to overcome it. Overall, with his offence factored in, his WAR percentile is 64%. That's good, and yes I'd take him. But I just wouldn't overpay for him, he's slightly above average as an NHL player. He needs to either become a 90+ point guy or massively improve the defence (or some combo of both) to really take the next step into an excellent forward and gamebreaker that is worth the overpayment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 49 minutes ago, Dalhabs said: Zegras = the new PLD? Im not sure I want to do another Mark Recchi trade. Why the new PLD? Cause he didn't want to be low balled in negotiations? Mark recchi? I am not suggesting we give Anahiem Slav and Mike Matheson which would be the equivalent I guess to LeClair and my boy Eric D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 54 minutes ago, Commandant said: Do you think he takes the next step and becomes an 80-90 point per season game breaker? Do you think he improves his defensive game so that 60 points is enough and hes not a liability. Those are good questions. I don't expect us to be lucky enough to get a McDavid or Mathews down the middle but if you can get a couple Suzuki's (ie. a couple 65-70 pt. centers who play a 200 ft game) then that is likely good enough. I am sure Hughes has likely inquired about Zegras. Again (I keep repeating myself), too bad Dach got hurt or we might know the answer on how the future at center will shape up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I am sure Hughes has likely inquired about Zegras. Again (I keep repeating myself), too bad Dach got hurt or we might know the answer on how the future at center will shape up. With the emergence of Slafkovsky with Suzuki and Caufield, Montreal has Newhook and Dach as suitors for 2nd line C. I would give Dach the edge in that department, as he’s shown flashes of a higher offensive ceiling and his size is nothing but and asset at center. I'm not so sure Zegras has a fit on the team unless it’s a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I think Newhook is a winger. Not been impressed with him at centre. Hes been much better on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I'd take Zegras if the price is reasonable. So we might have seven or eight top-six forwards? Injuries happen, so that would not be a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 16 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I'd take Zegras if the price is reasonable. So we might have seven or eight top-six forwards? Injuries happen, so that would not be a bad thing. Agree on if the price is reasonable. I'm just not overpaying and some here are treating him as some elite player in the making. I compared him to Drouin, but I always thought Drouin had a place if the contract was right and you weren't asking him to be your number 1 forward. The price on the trade is the big one. We can't be paying as if Zegras is this gamebreaker who is going to transform the team. He's an above average forward overall, where his offence does slightly more than his defence, but the lack of elite offence, and the terrible defence, means that while he's a net positive, the ceiling will be limited unless one of those changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said: With the emergence of Slafkovsky with Suzuki and Caufield, Montreal has Newhook and Dach as suitors for 2nd line C. I would give Dach the edge in that department, as he’s shown flashes of a higher offensive ceiling and his size is nothing but and asset at center. I'm not so sure Zegras has a fit on the team unless it’s a great deal. Much like Newhook, Zegras will end up a winger (on the Habs) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 46 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Much like Newhook, Zegras will end up a winger (on the Habs) Anaheim was already toying with the idea of making him a winger (with McTavish/Carlsson being their top two centres). Trade or not, he might be on the wing when he comes back from injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Why the new PLD? Cause he didn't want to be low balled in negotiations? Mark recchi? I am not suggesting we give Anahiem Slav and Mike Matheson which would be the equivalent I guess to LeClair and my boy Eric D I’m sinking it is reference of a large part of the fan base wanting to overpay for PLD - who so far has been a bust in LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, tomh009 said: I'd take Zegras if the price is reasonable. So we might have seven or eight top-six forwards? Injuries happen, so that would not be a bad thing. Agreed. But it won’t be a reasonable price if the price LAK paid for PLD is what ANA things it can get for Zegras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Agree on if the price is reasonable. I'm just not overpaying and some here are treating him as some elite player in the making. I compared him to Drouin, but I always thought Drouin had a place if the contract was right and you weren't asking him to be your number 1 forward. The price on the trade is the big one. We can't be paying as if Zegras is this gamebreaker who is going to transform the team. He's an above average forward overall, where his offence does slightly more than his defence, but the lack of elite offence, and the terrible defence, means that while he's a net positive, the ceiling will be limited unless one of those changes. Really not here to argue over thinking i want to explore this deal more and more each day... Never once did I say he was elite... (jack hughes is elite already) I said we would need to over pay to get him, and we had the assets to get a deal done. I would be pushing for this trade provided we used draft capital more so then our highest rated prospects. He's been Anahiems 1C basically since his rookie season in 2021/22 unless we are still counting Getzlaf as their 1C that year. In those two seasons 61 and 65 points basically playing against other teams top lines and we are saying what about his D ? Please... hes been on the Freakin Ducks the last 3 seasons. Even Suzuki at 20 and 21 had better support down the middle. I did say however he was a top 10-15 nhl forward under 23 yrs old and would love someone to provide a list of 10-15 better U23 NHL forwards that could be dealt to us. This is an opportunity we should not pass up to improve our scoring forwards (not our defensive forwards) Comparing him to Drouin is laughable st this point in their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 8 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Anaheim was already toying with the idea of making him a winger (with McTavish/Carlsson being their top two centres). Trade or not, he might be on the wing when he comes back from injury. Agreed but Carlsson just arrived this year and McTavish last season. Cutter will join their ranks as early as end of season as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Really not here to argue over thinking i want to explore this deal more and more each day... Never once did I say he was elite... (jack hughes is elite already) I said we would need to over pay to get him, and we had the assets to get a deal done. I would be pushing for this trade provided we used draft capital more so then our highest rated prospects. He's been Anahiems 1C basically since his rookie season in 2021/22 unless we are still counting Getzlaf as their 1C that year. In those two seasons 61 and 65 points basically playing against other teams top lines and we are saying what about his D ? Please... hes been on the Freakin Ducks the last 3 seasons. Even Suzuki at 20 and 21 had better support down the middle. I did say however he was a top 10-15 nhl forward under 23 yrs old and would love someone to provide a list of 10-15 better U23 NHL forwards that could be dealt to us. This is an opportunity we should not pass up to improve our scoring forwards (not our defensive forwards) Comparing him to Drouin is laughable st this point in their careers. You do realize that being in the 7th and 8th percentile for his defensive game is adjusted for the level of teammates and level of competition? The defensive game is bad. I dont even know why we are arguing this. The numbers are there. But its not just the numbers. Every insider who has talked about him being available, Dreger, Seravelli, Freidman, etc... they all say the same thing, hes available cause the Ducks dont like his two-way game. As has been said, game breaking forwards under 23 just dont come available very often. He has, so that necessitates the question of why. Also a list of top 10-15 forwards under 23, and a list of top 10-15 that could be dealt to us are two different things. Guys like Jack Hughes and Connor Bedard would top one list but certainly dont qualify as guys who could be dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Commandant said: You do realize that being in the 7th and 8th percentile for his defensive game is adjusted for the level of teammates and level of competition? The defensive game is bad. I dont even know why we are arguing this. The numbers are there. But its not just the numbers. Every insider who has talked about him being available, Dreger, Seravelli, Freidman, etc... they all say the same thing, hes available cause the Ducks dont like his two-way game. As has been said, game breaking forwards under 23 just dont come available very often. He has, so that necessitates the question of why. Also a list of top 10-15 forwards under 23, and a list of top 10-15 that could be dealt to us are two different things. Guys like Jack Hughes and Connor Bedard would top one list but certainly dont qualify as guys who could be dealt. If the truth is that they are trading him because his poor two way play then I doubt strongly that HuGo would be interested - unless HuGo believes that Marty can fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.