DON Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Prust's shoulder injuries scares me. He's not right. Yes, his reckless attacks on the boards makes it hard to believe he played every game for 2 straight seasons with Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 To get this thread back on track Tinordi/Desharnais/Moen----for B. Schenn/ Morin Philly needs cultural shift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 To get this thread back on track Tinordi/Desharnais/Moen----for B. Schenn/ Morin Philly needs cultural shift Maybe if flip in Beaulieu instead of Tinordi, would make more sense for Habs. Habs are flush with offensively gifted d-men on roster and in the system, but to remove a rare (for Habs) physical d-man, whom I expect to be impact player next season, dosent seem to make sense. Morin is likely several years away from full time NHL readiness and does he have the leadership character of a Tinordi? And Philly's current scoring leader is unlikely to go anywhere? But Beaulieu might be very appealing and get them to do it? (But I still see zero need to make any trades at present and once Pacioretty, Murray, Yemelin, Prust are back, Habs should be quite competitive vs anyone.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 To get this thread back on track Tinordi/Desharnais/Moen----for B. Schenn/ Morin Philly needs cultural shift Even without cap considerations, I don't see Philly doing this deal, I think we are ripping them off. Add to that our guys cost way more on the cap right now, and Philly in major cap trouble, and this is a complete no go for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Even without cap considerations, I don't see Philly doing this deal, I think we are ripping them off. Add to that our guys cost way more on the cap right now, and Philly in major cap trouble, and this is a complete no go for them. What if we traded Voracek name for Schenn and included a prospect instead of Moen or not? Morin for Ttinordi seems even except for the delay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Eklund says Habs and Oilers are talking about Yakapov. I would love to have him but I don't think we have anything they want, except Price of course. I think this is probably just Ek thinking "jeez i haven't mentioned Montreal lately better make something up" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Of course Eklund's rumours are less than worthless, but I've been wondering about Yakupov. He seems like a top-line talent that could be acquired for cheap because of Edmonton's early struggles and front office idiocy. I'm worried Toronto might get him with some package around Reimer + Gardiner, i.e. pieces they don't really need. I was thinking that we could offer Gorges+ for him (probably would have to add a top prospect, or perhaps a roster player like Bourque). That would create a big hole on our blue line, but in the end we're giving a #4 defenseman for a potential first-line winger. This type of move might hurt in the short term but pay off big down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Edmonton is having problems keeping the puck out of their net. If we were to trade for Yakupov, and I think it would be a brilliant idea, The price tag for Yakupov alone shouldn't be any more than Gorges + Moen. Which is what Edmonton is looking for. They want team defense concept, those 2 guys are exactly what they are looking for. Only huge hole in that trade is the cap space So to make it work, it would have to look something like this; To Edmonton Gorges Moen Prospect (Mid-level, like Holland or Bournival should suffice) To Montreal Yakupov Smyth 5.7m going Edmonton's way, 3.2 coming back, so we'll be at 2.5m cap space and they will have about 1.5m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 Edmonton is having problems keeping the puck out of their net. If we were to trade for Yakupov, and I think it would be a brilliant idea, The price tag for Yakupov alone shouldn't be any more than Gorges + Moen. Which is what Edmonton is looking for. They want team defense concept, those 2 guys are exactly what they are looking for. Only huge hole in that trade is the cap space So to make it work, it would have to look something like this; If the Habs were in Edmonton's situation, would you trade Galchenyuk, a top-3 pick from that same draft, for a package of players comparable to Gorges and Moen? There's no way I would and I think Edmonton would decline this in a heartbeat. Yes, Edmonton needs defence and Gorges would be a fit but the plus needs to be something worth a lot more than Moen - a top prospect in all likelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 If the Habs were in Edmonton's situation, would you trade Galchenyuk, a top-3 pick from that same draft, for a package of players comparable to Gorges and Moen? There's no way I would and I think Edmonton would decline this in a heartbeat. Yes, Edmonton needs defence and Gorges would be a fit but the plus needs to be something worth a lot more than Moen - a top prospect in all likelihood. While I agree with what your saying, this is not the same situation reversed. Galchenyuk isn't on the block for us, nor would he be if we were in Edmonton's shoes. Yakupov is the odd man out on a team with great young talent. He has been publicly on the block for the last few weeks. I think your over estimating Yakupov's value just a tad. The kid can put up points, but is a defensive liability. He is a modern day Havlat, early in his career. He is severely lacking defensively, so unless he's putting up points then he isn't an NHL player. Hence why he has been sitting in the pressbox on and off so far this season. Galchenyuk can play without the puck, Yakupov cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 While I agree with what your saying, this is not the same situation reversed. Galchenyuk isn't on the block for us, nor would he be if we were in Edmonton's shoes. Yakupov is the odd man out on a team with great young talent. He has been publicly on the block for the last few weeks. I think your over estimating Yakupov's value just a tad. The kid can put up points, but is a defensive liability. He is a modern day Havlat, early in his career. He is severely lacking defensively, so unless he's putting up points then he isn't an NHL player. Hence why he has been sitting in the pressbox on and off so far this season. Galchenyuk can play without the puck, Yakupov cannot. we could think about gorges and fucale and the dynamic mr DD ? it might work. i hate to lose fucale but with price in the nets he is a long way away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 To get this thread back on track Tinordi/Desharnais/Moen----for B. Schenn/ Morin Philly needs cultural shift Desharnais Diaz Beaulieu Couturier Meszaros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Desharnais Diaz Beaulieu Couturier Meszaros I like/ would Philly bite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 While I agree with what your saying, this is not the same situation reversed. Galchenyuk isn't on the block for us, nor would he be if we were in Edmonton's shoes. Yakupov is the odd man out on a team with great young talent. He has been publicly on the block for the last few weeks. I think your over estimating Yakupov's value just a tad. The kid can put up points, but is a defensive liability. He is a modern day Havlat, early in his career. He is severely lacking defensively, so unless he's putting up points then he isn't an NHL player. Hence why he has been sitting in the pressbox on and off so far this season. Galchenyuk can play without the puck, Yakupov cannot. Yakupov is a year removed from being drafted first overall. If he turns into Havlat, he's still worth more than Gorges and Moen. The fact that he might be available doesn't lower his value, and Edmonton doesn't have to sell. To get a top line talent you have to pay up, not just throw in scraps. It would have to be Gorges + one valuable asset if not two. Moen could conceivably be a throw in AFTER Beaulieu or Tinordi, but not a primary piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yakupov is a year removed from being drafted first overall. If he turns into Havlat, he's still worth more than Gorges and Moen. The fact that he might be available doesn't lower his value, and Edmonton doesn't have to sell. To get a top line talent you have to pay up, not just throw in scraps. It would have to be Gorges + one valuable asset if not two. Moen could conceivably be a throw in AFTER Beaulieu or Tinordi, but not a primary piece. Agreed. Although prospect wise there's not much I wouldn't give up at the opportunity of having Chucky & Yak possibly going Sedin for the Habs. Considering the make up of Edmonton's roster.. this wouldn't be a plausible scenario if he was on just about any another team. Although, I don't feel Gorges would be the piece to move. Bergy talks of character and this is something Josh has in spades. Also I think he's too woven into the core. Something tells me it would do more damage than naught. Collberg Desharnais Pateryn Tokarski Holland Desharnais Beaulieu Tokarski Holland Desharnais Diaz Fucale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Agreed. Although prospect wise there's not much I wouldn't give up at the opportunity of having Chucky & Yak possibly going Sedin for the Habs. Considering the make up of Edmonton's roster.. this wouldn't be a plausible scenario if he was on just about any another team. Although, I don't feel Gorges would be the piece to move. Bergy talks of character and this is something Josh has in spades. Also I think he's too woven into the core. Something tells me it would do more damage than naught. Collberg Desharnais Pateryn Tokarski Holland Desharnais Beaulieu Tokarski Holland Desharnais Diaz Fucale None of those packages are particularly valuable to Edmonton. Do they want another undersized offensive centreman (DD)? Do they want B-level prospects (Holland, Collberg, Pateryn)? Do they want long-term goalie help when they're suffering now? Do they want Diaz? (I would guess not). Beaulieu I could see them wanting, but if they were to trade a recent #1 overall it would be for help NOW. Where do they most need help? On D. Who is the only defenseman we have who has trade value and is remotely expendable? Gorges. (I can't see UFA Markov being worth much to them). I mentioned that it would hurt us in the short term - it definitely would. But you have to give up a lot to get a lot back, and having a #4 defenseman as a primary piece to get a potential top line winger would be considered fleecing by many. Here's the offer: Gorges Beaulieu Moen for Yakupov + pieces to make the cap work This deal comes down to how highly we value Yakupov, of course, and what we think of Beaulieu relative to that. For Edmonton, it gives them experience and character to turn their season around. For us, we might be looking at our future first line winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 None of those packages are particularly valuable to Edmonton. Do they want another undersized offensive centreman (DD)? Do they want B-level prospects (Holland, Collberg, Pateryn)? Do they want long-term goalie help when they're suffering now? Do they want Diaz? (I would guess not). Beaulieu I could see them wanting, but if they were to trade a recent #1 overall it would be for help NOW. Where do they most need help? On D. Who is the only defenseman we have who has trade value and is remotely expendable? Gorges. (I can't see UFA Markov being worth much to them). I mentioned that it would hurt us in the short term - it definitely would. But you have to give up a lot to get a lot back, and having a #4 defenseman as a primary piece to get a potential top line winger would be considered fleecing by many. Here's the offer: Gorges Beaulieu Moen for Yakupov + pieces to make the cap work This deal comes down to how highly we value Yakupov, of course, and what we think of Beaulieu relative to that. For Edmonton, it gives them experience and character to turn their season around. For us, we might be looking at our future first line winger. Well. We can agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Desharnais Diaz Beaulieu Couturier Meszaros Great fantasy trade. Seriously, if Holmgren makes this deal he'll be out of work by May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 None of those packages are particularly valuable to Edmonton. Do they want another undersized offensive centreman (DD)? Do they want B-level prospects (Holland, Collberg, Pateryn)? Do they want long-term goalie help when they're suffering now? Do they want Diaz? (I would guess not). Beaulieu I could see them wanting, but if they were to trade a recent #1 overall it would be for help NOW. Where do they most need help? On D. Who is the only defenseman we have who has trade value and is remotely expendable? Gorges. (I can't see UFA Markov being worth much to them). I mentioned that it would hurt us in the short term - it definitely would. But you have to give up a lot to get a lot back, and having a #4 defenseman as a primary piece to get a potential top line winger would be considered fleecing by many. Here's the offer: Gorges Beaulieu Moen for Yakupov + pieces to make the cap work This deal comes down to how highly we value Yakupov, of course, and what we think of Beaulieu relative to that. For Edmonton, it gives them experience and character to turn their season around. For us, we might be looking at our future first line winger. This has the potential to be a great trade for MTL if Yak meets his potential. Meanwhile we have surrendered a good prospect a good 3rd liner and a decent defenseman. I would love to see this trade but I can't see EDM going for it. that the EDM GM gets a brain cramp from the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 This has the potential to be a great trade for MTL if Yak meets his potential. Meanwhile we have surrendered a good prospect a good 3rd liner and a decent defenseman. I would love to see this trade but I can't see EDM going for it. that the EDM GM gets a brain cramp from the pressure. I agree, Edmonton would want a king's ransom for Yakupov. We're also probably not an ideal trading partner for them. But they need defensive help in a big way, and some team might get lucky with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 What if we traded Voracek name for Schenn and included a prospect instead of Moen or not? Morin for Ttinordi seems even except for the delay So now you want an even better player in Voracek? I don't see Philly going for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Yakupov's caphit alone is 3.775 million. Not sure where you got those numbers from. And it would be laughable for the Oilers to make a move of Yak for Gorges and Moen. MacTavish would be fired on the spot for such a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So now you want an even better player in Voracek? I don't see Philly going for that. Fair enough--- Can you agree that Tinordi and Morin are the same player and you might get value because Tinordi is closer to the show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Yes, I would agree with that. Very similar guys... so there could be value there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Fair enough--- Can you agree that Tinordi and Morin are the same player and you might get value because Tinordi is closer to the show? Morin is captain/assistant of his team? Does he show any leadership qualities? Tinordi has at all levels so far, so I would guess not same player (granted I am not real familiar with Morin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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