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Fire Bergevin


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Habs have averaged 93pts/season under Bergevin's overall regime. In the last 5 years, it's 88pts. Those are figured on a PPG basis. The team has not improved. Bergevin has been unable to identify the coaches needed, or the players needed to move the team forward on a consistent basis. The deficiencies that were in place prior to his hiring are still deficiencies. 

 

Regardless of him having a "great offseason" does that matter if the team was unsuccessful? No excuses, eh?

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I've been one of the few saying that Weber should be protected and that his leadership was overcoming his decline of on-ice skills, but after what I saw yesterday,  if his decline is that bad and if he doesn't inspire his teamates to give more than they did, then #### off.

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15 minutes ago, huzer said:

Habs have averaged 93pts/season under Bergevin's overall regime. In the last 5 years, it's 88pts. Those are figured on a PPG basis. The team has not improved. Bergevin has been unable to identify the coaches needed, or the players needed to move the team forward on a consistent basis. The deficiencies that were in place prior to his hiring are still deficiencies. 

 

Regardless of him having a "great offseason" does that matter if the team was unsuccessful? No excuses, eh?


My personal opinion is that it matters. I have always been neutral on Bergevin in that I have wanted him gone at times, and have found attacks on him tiring at others. 
 

I am not happy how the Habs are playing. I think they instil no fear in the Leafs. There’s no way that Leafs team or their fans doubt themselves against us right now.

 

However, the amount of years of Bergevin’s tenure mean nothing to me, as long as he has been making decent decisions in the recent past and continues to do so. 
 

I guess your quotations mean that you would argue against him having had a successful off season, and if that’s the case, I respect your opinion. 
 

If he did indeed have a decent off season last year, then that is reason enough for him to stay. I’m all for a new GM, if I personally had an idea of a better candidate. I’m not up for the sake of change just because of change. That’s what happened with Julien/Ducharme.

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My thoughts regarding Weber are the same as with any other player. In a salary cap world are you getting value for what you pay?  I would love Weber at 3.5-4 million/year as a 2nd pairing defenceman/power play specialist\leader.  I don't love Weber at 7.5 million/year anymore.  There was a time he was worth that, not anymore. 

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63 goals scored in 23 playoff games is an unacceptable stat. We have moved players in and out of the lineup yet we still can’t score. 
 

The only thing that has remained the whole time is Bergevin and his lack of hockey IQ. 
 

Why are there advocates to keep the party going? Don’t you want to win? Or do you genuinely believe that Bergevin is on the right path?

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... Weber and Petry were two of the best offensive defensemen in the league during the regular season ...

In 5-on-5 points per game (minimum 10 games) Petry was 40th this season and Weber 177th ... on the powerplay Petry was 19th and Weber 30th ... better but not amongst the best.

 

2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... No thanks. Weren’t some people praising New York For their public rebuild/retool a few years ago? Doesn’t look like that has worked out for them. Also, new faces and new direction guarantees absolute zilch. 

In February 2018 the Rangers announced they were undertaking a rebuild ... and for the last two seasons have finished with more wins than the Habs ... despite having the second youngest team in the league both years; Habs were the 17th oldest in 1/20 and 5th oldest in 20/21 ... looks to me like the NYR rebuild has a brighter future than MB's re-tool

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... If he did indeed have a decent off season last year, then that is reason enough for him to stay ...

I agree that the off-season certainly looked decent ... better than any other he has had (IMO) ... but before the season he said the team was built to "do damage" in the playoffs ... by trade deadline-ish it reverted to "anything can happen" ... but the results don't back up the offseason having been decent ... the Habs made this years' playoffs because (a) they weren't in a Division with Toronto, Boston, TBL and Florida or the same Conference as Carolina, Caps, Flyers, Pens, Islanders and Rangers ... and ... (b) in the Covid Scotia North the Canucks (.119) and Flames (.073) regressed more than Montreal improved (.027) in points percentage ... 

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3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Bergevin is fine for another year in my books but I’m not particularly a fan of Ducharme, and never was. If that was Bergevin’s decision, which it was, then that should indeed fall on him as well.

 

I wouldn’t fire him for left D this, first line center that. 
 

Our defensive corps as an entirety is at worst in the top half of the league. Weber and Petry were two of the best offensive defensemen in the league during the regular season.

 

It’s like people compare our d corps to how d corps used to be in 1999, rather than compare them to other teams in the league now. There are certainly some recent defensive corps that have been elite. I can think of recent Nashville, or Tampa Bay teams.
 

With that being said, there are so many teams in the league nowadays that have a “who is that?” name in the top 4, and sometimes even on the top pairing. Why this change has happened? I’m not sure. Perhaps cap space, or something akin to the “death of the enforcer”, but in reverse.

 

With that being said, time will tell whether or not

 

1) We can make any sort of pushback in this series.

 

2) How will/would the Leafs look against Winnipeg, or other competition.

 

3) We’ve either been extremely lacklustre, or the Leafs have helped us look that way. Remembering that they were 1st overall in the division.

 

I’m not on the fire Bergevin bandwagon but I’l take an astute coach, and he needs to keep improving our team. 

 

“Rebuild this. Rebuild that.”

 

No thanks. Weren’t some people praising New York For their public rebuild/retool a few years ago? Doesn’t look like that has worked out for them. Also, new faces and new direction guarantees absolute zilch. 

Where we watching the same team? Weber was one of the best offensive dmen in the league?? Are you sure you weren’t watching clips from 2013?  Edmonton has a better D core than us. I’d take Nurse over anyone we have. And they suck. Winnipeg is better D core than us. Would take Morrissey and Pionk over Weber and Petry.  And they suck. Vancouver’s D suck, but I’d take there S simply becuae they have a potential generational D man in Hughes.  I’d take Ottawa’s horrid D, because they have Chabot.  We have Petry, and a bunch of bottom pairing dmen. And Petry is ideally a 2nd pairing guy. Not someone who should be the anchor of your D. Very good dman, who hopefully will be very good fir another 2 years. Weber is done. With a good puck moving skating dman, he would be a good 2nd pairing dman. He is no longer a top pairing guy and is no longer worth anywhere near his cap hit. Chiarot is a pylon. Edmondson is a better, but is ideally suited to be a #5. Merrill? Depth D. Kulak, may become a decent D with the right partner. Romanov, I HOPE he turns into a top 4. 
 

if we had a decent D, and top half of the league. We would not be so inept offensively. The transition game sucks and wastes the speed we do possess on the wing. 
 

I’ll take the Rangers lineup over ours right now, without a millisecond of hesitation. If Drury called and offered to swap rosters, I’d do it IMMEDIATELY.

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

That’s the point. They canned everyone and are still going nowhere. They’ve been more of a shit-show than the Habs, yet they’re going the route everyone would praise. 
 

The Leafs are actually 27.55 average age and the Habs are 28.04 so depending on your definition, this is actually men against men.

 

If you are saying it in an expression of speech type of way, then that was also the point. The Leafs are a solid team, it just usually lasts only during the regular season for them. This is also the reason, I know they will eventually choke. Whether it’s this series or the next.

 

Finally, your opinion on the potential pushback of the Habs means zero. If it were to happen, you would simply vanish until their next loss anyway. Don’t expect me to be surprised about your personal opinion in regards to a pushback by the Habs.
 

Okay, so if we want to spin things into a negative and discuss his 61st position in points... Based on the reality of there being 31 teams in the league, Shea Weber is either the worst top pairing defenseman, or the absolute best second pairing d-man in the league based on points alone. Which would you prefer?

 

Let’s not forget that Weber had the 7th most goals amongst defensemen in the league on the power play. Considering he is not known to be a power play specialist in the same regard as say, a MAB, one would think this could be taken into consideration when discussing his offense.

 

Anyway, I know that when discussing things like Josh Anderson being worth more than points, it will be accepted as a defense of his 7 million cap hit. Yet when the same concept of intangibles would be discussed concerning Weber, it would be laughed at and described as mythological. 
 

I wouldn’t call Weber elite, and I’m not sure where that came from. I would say he is still elite  when it comes to power play goals, as well as the power on his shot. He is still elite there, yet the main focus to a certain breed would rather be to mention how often he misses the net.

They haven’t canned the architect of this mess. And that’s the problem. Time to move on from Bergevin and Timmins - and Timmins actually did better prior to Bergevin.

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

That’s the point. They canned everyone and are still going nowhere. They’ve been more of a shit-show than the Habs, yet they’re going the route everyone would praise. 
 

The Leafs are actually 27.55 average age and the Habs are 28.04 so depending on your definition, this is actually men against men.

 

If you are saying it in an expression of speech type of way, then that was also the point. The Leafs are a solid team, it just usually lasts only during the regular season for them. This is also the reason, I know they will eventually choke. Whether it’s this series or the next.

 

Finally, your opinion on the potential pushback of the Habs means zero. If it were to happen, you would simply vanish until their next loss anyway. Don’t expect me to be surprised about your personal opinion in regards to a pushback by the Habs.
 

Okay, so if we want to spin things into a negative and discuss his 61st position in points... Based on the reality of there being 31 teams in the league, Shea Weber is either the worst top pairing defenseman, or the absolute best second pairing d-man in the league based on points alone. Which would you prefer?

 

Let’s not forget that Weber had the 7th most goals amongst defensemen in the league on the power play. Considering he is not known to be a power play specialist in the same regard as say, a MAB, one would think this could be taken into consideration when discussing his offense.

 

Anyway, I know that when discussing things like Josh Anderson being worth more than points, it will be accepted as a defense of his 7 million cap hit. Yet when the same concept of intangibles would be discussed concerning Weber, it would be laughed at and described as mythological. 
 

I wouldn’t call Weber elite, and I’m not sure where that came from. I would say he is still elite  when it comes to power play goals, as well as the power on his shot. He is still elite there, yet the main focus to a certain breed would rather be to mention how often he misses the net.

We have one of the the WORST PP’s in the league!! So how is Weber elite on the PP??? He used to be elite. He oils that be even in the top 10 dmen is want in the North Division.

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

I guess your quotations mean that you would argue against him having had a successful off season, and if that’s the case, I respect your opinion. 

 

 

Even if I just base it on this season the team scored fewer goals this year than last, on a per game average. They had a very modest increase in points earned per game (1.05PPG vs 1 PPG), and gave up fewer goals (3.0 GAA vs 3.1 GAA). The team had to juggle daily to stay under the cap. 

 

I've been fairly neutral towards Bergevin overall. Heck, I have a picture of my kid with him from a few years back. But the results just aren't there to support retaining him anymore.

 

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I've been up and down regarding Bergevin since about his 3d season with us but we've been through his retool, instead of a rebuild, and I think this year should be the final straw. Our team is bad and the older core seems done.

 

We do have some good young players so I think Molson should clean house and remove Bergevin, Ducharme and Timmins and bring in a new GM as soon as possible and let him begin to rebuild. 

 

I think I know the answer to this but wouldn't it be amazing if Julien Brisebois wanted to return to his roots and rebuild his home team! 

 

Geoff Molson, it's time, we can't wait another year and go through the same thing in a much tougher division next year with Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Carolina, Florida, Ottawa .......all stronger than us and getting stronger. We're willing to suffer through 3 years of pain as long as we see a plan and progress.    

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16 minutes ago, REV-G said:

I've been up and down regarding Bergevin since about his 3d season with us but we've been through his retool, instead of a rebuild, and I think this year should be the final straw. Our team is bad and the older core seems done.

 

We do have some good young players so I think Molson should clean house and remove Bergevin, Ducharme and Timmins and bring in a new GM as soon as possible and let him begin to rebuild. 

 

I think I know the answer to this but wouldn't it be amazing if Julien Brisebois wanted to return to his roots and rebuild his home team! 

 

Geoff Molson, it's time, we can't wait another year and go through the same thing in a much tougher division next year with Tampa, Boston, Toronto, Carolina, Florida, Ottawa .......all stronger than us and getting stronger. We're willing to suffer through 3 years of pain as long as we see a plan and progress.    

 

I am willing to suffer some more pain to do it right but will that sell in a hockey crazy market like Montreal?  Are the fans willing to suffer for a couple more years after not being able to attend games?  I hoped MB would have gone farther in his retool or rebuild or whatever you want to call it. More Pacioretty type trades. Would a new GM have the cajones to do what needs to be done or would they try and appease the masses/media by trying to win right away?

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9 minutes ago, REV-G said:

... wouldn't it be amazing if Julien Brisebois wanted to return to his roots and rebuild his home team! ...

I have tried but failed to see if I could find anything on Brisebois's contract and when it expires ... I know he got some sort of re-write/extension when Yzerman left but Google has not provided me the details (likely don't know where to look) ... of course if the Bolts lose next round the TBL ownership might decide it is time to make a change regardless ... 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I am willing to suffer some more pain to do it right but will that sell in a hockey crazy market like Montreal?  Are the fans willing to suffer for a couple more years after not being able to attend games?  ...

I am as well ... after no live hockey for over a year, there may be a unique opportunity to have fans "accept suffering" ... I also think an infusion of young players playing an aggressive style would help maintain interest/enthusiasm ... but don't expect it to happen

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1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

I am as well ... after no live hockey for over a year, there may be a unique opportunity to have fans "accept suffering" ... I also think an infusion of young players playing an aggressive style would help maintain interest/enthusiasm ... but don't expect it to happen

 

Good points, an exciting young team that loses maybe more than they win for a couple years but you know they are going to get better would likely sell.  I don't expect it to happen either as I expect MB or any new GM to hang on to the vets in the hopes they can get it done.  You do need some quality veteran leadership for the young guys. 

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Let's hope that Molson is reaching out and asking and receiving some good external advice, Serge Savard or Scotty Bowman, people like that. And you would hope that they will tell him something like the following:

 

Part 1: it's time to make major changes staring with a new GM. Then make major changes to our current roster. A significant rebuild but keeping the younger players. 

 

Part two: the candidate who gets the job has to give strong evidence in the interviews that he understands that keeping all the veterans isn't the plan. MB wanted to do that and that's why he's not here. The new GM's mandate would be to develop the younger players we have now and trade all the vets for picks or younger pieces to build for the future. 

 

Part 3: we must be willing to drop to the bottom of the pile for a year or two to get high picks along with the picks MB has stockpiled and then communicate that to the fans the way the Rangers did a few years back. 

 

Part 3: don't interview Pierre McGuire. Very nice guy but not enough GM experience for us. 

 

I wonder if that's possible or is in process? Here's hoping.... 

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The only thing I'll say is that burning one year of the ELC was also part of getting him to leave Russia and sign with us instead of extending with his Russian team.

 

Other than that, its accurate. 

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4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

I have tried but failed to see if I could find anything on Brisebois's contract and when it expires ... I know he got some sort of re-write/extension when Yzerman left but Google has not provided me the details (likely don't know where to look) ... of course if the Bolts lose next round the TBL ownership might decide it is time to make a change regardless ... 

 

 

Don’t know why TBL would want to replace him, or why’d he’d leave when he can add more cups. How many French players wanted to come back? Why would it be any different for a GM in a good situation and great weather?

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3 hours ago, REV-G said:

Let's hope that Molson is reaching out and asking and receiving some good external advice, Serge Savard or Scotty Bowman, people like that. And you would hope that they will tell him something like the following:

 

Part 1: it's time to make major changes staring with a new GM. Then make major changes to our current roster. A significant rebuild but keeping the younger players. 

 

Part two: the candidate who gets the job has to give strong evidence in the interviews that he understands that keeping all the veterans isn't the plan. MB wanted to do that and that's why he's not here. The new GM's mandate would be to develop the younger players we have now and trade all the vets for picks or younger pieces to build for the future. 

 

Part 3: we must be willing to drop to the bottom of the pile for a year or two to get high picks along with the picks MB has stockpiled and then communicate that to the fans the way the Rangers did a few years back. 

 

Part 3: don't interview Pierre McGuire. Very nice guy but not enough GM experience for us. 

 

I wonder if that's possible or is in process? Here's hoping.... 

I do not want Roy, but I’d take him over McGuire. And I have zero interest in Roy. 

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

No idea who this guy is but it’s a good tweet

 

 

He should have added the insult of not even playing Romanov in the playoffs 

 

Mgmt on this time is like a chicken running around with its head cut off.

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25 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I do not want Roy, but I’d take him over McGuire. And I have zero interest in Roy. 

 

If I had to pick one, I would pick McGuire. I think he has a greater chance of acting like an actual GM instead of turning the Habs into a complete gong-show. That said, in managerial terms, that's a choice between Clown 1 and Clown 2...God forbid either of them takes the helm.

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