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Fire Bergevin


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1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I didn't say it was the only bad trade made by a Habs GM, there have been several.  You noted a couple.  But that trade illustrated to me that Gainey just didn't understand the salary cap which concerned me.  Taking on a contract like Gomez AND AND throwing in your best defence prospect when Sather should have been happy just to dump the contract.   It was a brutal trade. He was absolutely fleeced by Glen Sather.  The Rechi trade didn't turn out well either. 

He lost out on the vinny trade when the league turned it down. Guess he thought his only option was taking a gamble on Gomez. 

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

He lost out on the vinny trade when the league turned it down. Guess he thought his only option was taking a gamble on Gomez. 

It’s not like Vinny wanted to come to montreal anyways.

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After watching another rock-solid playoff effort by Price squandered, I'm firmly aboard the "fire Bergy" bandwagon.  Same old problem, for so many years, is simply unacceptable.

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1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

Yeah but the trade was agree upon but league turned it down and Tampa backed out . 

 

Didn’t that trade involve Price and Pleks? If so, it would probably have turned out worse than the Gomez trade, as unbelievable as that sounds

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1 minute ago, Chris said:

Didn;t Gomez and crew go the ECF? 

 

Glad you asked!! While Gomez for McDonagh would have turned out to be a bad trade no matter how you slice it, the guy Gainey acquired was still an elite playmaker who brought a lot of speed and offensive creativity. He had a respectable 59 points on an offensively mediocre team in 2010 and was a major force in the drive to the semi-finals. The *real* problem was that, mysteriously and inexplicably, his game completely evaporated over the summer of 2010. He utterly lost it at age 31.

 

That was an example of something that plagued Bob as GM - i.e., the breaks seldom went his way. If Gomez had remained productive until 34-35, like many star players, we probably would not regard that as one of the very worst trades in habs’ history.

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

He lost out on the vinny trade when the league turned it down. Guess he thought his only option was taking a gamble on Gomez. 

 

It wasn't even a gamble, it showed a total lack of understanding of the salary cap. Sather probably couldn't believe his good fortune. 

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7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Didn’t that trade involve Price and Pleks? If so, it would probably have turned out worse than the Gomez trade, as unbelievable as that sounds

Yep. It would have been worse. I was a Gainey fan at the start, and based on what we had, he was an upgrade on Houle - but than only Milbury would have been a downgrade.  I hated Ribiero, but he started losing me on that trade, and completely lost me on the Gomez trade. Hanging on to Souray was also dumb. Moving Rivet and getting Kovolev were his best moves.

 

Will always be a fan of Gainey the player, not a fan of Gainey the GM.

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1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Glad you asked!! While Gomez for McDonagh would have turned out to be a bad trade no matter how you slice it, the guy Gainey acquired was still an elite playmaker who brought a lot of speed and offensive creativity. He had a respectable 59 points on an offensively mediocre team in 2010 and was a major force in the drive to the semi-finals. The *real* problem was that, mysteriously and inexplicably, his game completely evaporated over the summer of 2010. He utterly lost it at age 31.

 

That was an example of something that plagued Bob as GM - i.e., the breaks seldom went his way. If Gomez had remained productive until 34-35, like many star players, we probably would not regard that as one of the very worst trades in habs’ history.

 

Gomez got a big contract because of 1 excellent year,  he was basically a 15 goal,  50-60 point guy who was vastly overpaid.  He didn't remain productive until 34-35 because he wasn't a star player. He was an excellent skater so people overlooked his other flaws. 

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29 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Didn’t that trade involve Price and Pleks? If so, it would probably have turned out worse than the Gomez trade, as unbelievable as that sounds

No I think it was Subban , pleks, Higgins and picks but after the media got wind Tampa gm backed out and wanted Subban along with Markov and Plekenec, Or price and Subban Something along that line.

 

Bob was all in on Price and never wanted to trade him even when he lost his starting job to Halak. Bob took heat for always playing price over Halak. 

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44 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Gomez got a big contract because of 1 excellent year,  he was basically a 15 goal,  50-60 point guy who was vastly overpaid.  He didn't remain productive until 34-35 because he wasn't a star player. He was an excellent skater so people overlooked his other flaws. 

 

More like 60-70 points, actually - good for 50 assists per year and consistently close to a PPG player in the playoffs. Like I said, an elite playmaker; the one year he scored goals is when he had 84 points. I don’t think Bob acquired him to be that guy. I think he wanted him to be Scott Gomez, instead of the fringe player he sadly became after one year with us; and one can argue that that was not an unreasonable expectation, really, especially considering he was being paired with his career wingman in Gionta.

 

That it melted down the way it did was basically bad luck for Bob, much as disastrous injuries to Lang and Markov were bad luck down the stretch in ‘09, or the swing-for-the-fences Niinima trade saw Bob take on all the risk and get zero reward, or losing Hainsey and Beauchemin on waivers only to have them turn into very solid D we could really have used. Or blowing the ‘03 draft. Or watching Streit turn into the Isles’ #1 D and a 50-points per year guy. Or seeing young guns he’d invested so much hope in turn into pumpkins in 2009.

 

Bob’s tenure just had too many mistakes. They weren’t all his fault, but his moves often simply failed to work out, for whatever reason.

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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

More like 60-70 points, actually - good for 50 assists per year and consistently close to a PPG player in the playoffs. Like I said, an elite playmaker; the one year he scored goals is when he had 84 points. I don’t think Bob acquired him to be that guy. I think he wanted him to be Scott Gomez, instead of the fringe player he sadly became after one year with us; and one can argue that that was not an unreasonable expectation, really, especially considering he was being paired with his career wingman in Gionta.

 

That it melted down the way it did was basically bad luck for Bob, much as disastrous injuries to Lang and Markov were bad luck down the stretch in ‘09, or the swing-for-the-fences Niinima trade saw Bob take on all the risk and get zero reward, or losing Hainsey and Beauchemin on waivers only to have them turn into very solid D we could really have used. Or blowing the ‘03 draft.

 

Bob’s tenure just had too many mistakes. They weren’t all his fault, but his moves often simply failed to work out, for whatever reason.

So you think Bergevin has had less mistakes??? 

 

I just don't get the fact that  who ever the gm is this team just doesn't score in the playoffs. 

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Just now, Habsfan89 said:

So you think Bergevin has had less mistakes??? 

 

I just don't get the fact that  who ever the gm is this team just doesn't score in the playoffs. 

 

Huh? No, I think MB has a very mediocre track record, salved somewhat by a phenomenal 2021. For some reason, people started talking about Gainey, so I happily got on board that train. As for Bergevin, I continue to say: give him a short-term deal and see if he can reboot the D like he did the FW unit.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Didn’t that trade involve Price and Pleks? If so, it would probably have turned out worse than the Gomez trade, as unbelievable as that sounds

 

I've seen several different iterations from Brian Lawton (GM of Tampa at the time) who seemed to change the deal every year or so in an effort to make himself look better publicly as he campaigns for another front office job that he's never going to get.  I think at one point, one of the players he claimed was in the trade wasn't even drafted yet.  To this day, I'm still skeptical that it got to the finish line.

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55 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

It wasn't even a gamble, it showed a total lack of understanding of the salary cap. 

 

One of my biggest arguments against Gainey is his lack of understanding of the salary cap.  i.e. I've always thought that he should have singed the #### bros and Grabovsky to 3-5 yr deals at $3-3.5/yr before they realized they were worth more.  It was basically the same mistake with Streit too.  He had an idiotic concept of not doing contract talks during the season, or if a player still had 1 year left on their contract.  

 

IMHO, its hard to pinpoint what the exact problem is with the Habs, but I'd say it dates back to even before Gainey.  i.e. a lot of the Habs current issues have existed for over a decade.  I believe a big part of it that the organization is still thinking under the old guard mentality or something.  

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I knew our inability to score goals was bad, especially so in the playoffs, but I didn't realize just HOW bad until I read this stat in the Gazette:

 

"63 goals in last 31 playoff games since 2015"

 

That's pathetic.  How the hell do you have this problem, and not solve it during such a long tenure as GM?

 

Fire. His. Ass.

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6 hours ago, sbhatt said:

I knew our inability to score goals was bad, especially so in the playoffs, but I didn't realize just HOW bad until I read this stat in the Gazette:

 

"63 goals in last 31 playoff games since 2015"

 

That's pathetic.  How the hell do you have this problem, and not solve it during such a long tenure as GM?

 

Fire. His. Ass.


Fire them all. 
 

We need to clean house and start over.  How is this acceptable Molson?

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2 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Need to figure out how to fire the owner.

 

I'll get on that ... right after I figure out how to stop the sun from setting (screw the other side of the world).

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... give him a short-term deal and see if he can reboot the D like he did the FW unit.

You mean the defence that has been entirely rebuilt from the time MB took over ... the bluieline has one leftover from MB's 3rd season (Petry) ... another from his 5th season (Weber) ... another from his 7th season (Kulak) ... Chiarot from last season and then Romanov and Edmundson to start this season ... looks to me like he has already rebuilt the defence to be what he sees as needed ... of course when Gustafsson is re-signed the puck moving LHD will finally be on the roster.

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I wonder how many here will change their mind if they come back and beat Toronto? 

I wouldn't change my mind, I gave Bergevin the 👍 up in the off season  thought he did a great job in filling the hole's on this team, and finally bring in talent. But from what I saw in the season and again in the playoffs, I truly believe we need to clean house and go in a different direction. This also means with Timmins and the scouting staff.  
 

How's it possible with the last 2 GM's we have had the same type of problems happen  every year in the regular season and in playoffs. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

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