hab29RETIRED Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Sending him to Winnipeg and testing the Jets waters vs say Boston or NYR or Dallas does help with a possible but highly unlikely re-sign in the off-season. But, stranger things have happened. I think he’ll probably sign with Ottawa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, hab29RETIRED said: I was hoping for more because of the Lindholm trade as well, but don’t forget that Flames took back $5m in salary for a guy who wasn’t being played by Vancouver - regardless of whether or not the Flames actually wanted Kuzmenko. The Canucks had been trying to move him for quite a while. That's one of the key prisms to understanding that trade, actually. Many critics are seeing Kuzmenko as a "catch" for Calgary. But from Vancouver's side, he was basically a salary dump. On reflection, while I'm happy with the 1st and not outraged by the deal, I do think more should have been expected. Maybe not much more - e.g., an unconditional third or fourth. But something. Monahan is an excellent player who brings all those "intangibles" GMs are always having orgasms about. Hughes probably could have done at least marginally better if he'd been patient and waited for a bidding war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 18 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: I don't get why some people here are thrilled with the return either. I was hoping it would be more than just one 1st rnd pick - which is likely all they will get out of it. The maximum scenario is they get picks: 1-32 and 3-32. I would have preferred the trade to include a mid tier prospect that has attributes that their other prospects lack. While that is true it doesn't change that it seems the Jets underpaid to get him. i.e. Sean was #3 of top available players at the trade deadline so they should have been able to get more than one 1st for him. The good thing is the Habs can still potentially do more moves because they didn't retain any salary. I have to wonder what part Sean had in the decision? Are the Jets a team Sean chose so Hughes took less to get him where he wanted to go? Would I have wanted more - of course. But I’m happy with a got a first now, rather than wait a month and risk an injury. We also didn’t need to retain any money - which would have brought a bigger return. Now we can use the last retention to maximize value for Savard or Allen. I think Savard probably brings the highest return, so I’d use it on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 In my mind Habs are trading Winnipeg’s first, Calgary’s first and a young Dman such as Harris for a top 6 forward. Let’s go HuGo Newhook has been skating so he will likely be the third line centre but until he is ready to return, we are weak down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: I was hoping for more because of the Lindholm trade as well, but don’t forget that Flames took back $5m in salary for a guy who wasn’t being played by Vancouver - regardless of whether or not the Flames actually wanted Kuzmenko. The Canucks had been trying to move him for quite a while. From Conroy's comments it sounds like they totally intend to keep Kuzmenko at least until next years trade deadline. After all, Kuzmenko did score 39 goals last year. Not sure what Tochets issue was with him but he might very well score close to the same amount as Lindholm, and possibly more. With what the Nucks gave up I'm surprised that they didn't have the Flames retain salary so they could do more moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: In my mind Habs are trading Winnipeg’s first, Calgary’s first and a young Dman such as Harris for a top 6 forward. Let’s go HuGo Newhook has been skating so he will likely be the third line centre but until he is ready to return, we are weak down the middle. 1 trade or a big UFA singing could nab a scorer the Habs desperately need. Being weak down the middle is actually another plus of the trade. Without Monahan they will likely lose more and drop in the standings which will get them a higher pick. As much as I wanted them to come close to making the playoffs, at this point I'd rather see them drop right off. I so want them to get Lindstrom at the draft and they will probably need to be 4th or 5th to get him. I hate to say it but the Habs are lucky that Pinto is back with the Sens so they might pass the Habs in the standings. I certainly don't want the Sens having a chance at Lindstrom. It would be incredibly bad if the Sens end up with him. 19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: On reflection, while I'm happy with the 1st and not outraged by the deal, I do think more should have been expected. Maybe not much more - e.g., an unconditional third or fourth. But something. Monahan is an excellent player who brings all those "intangibles" GMs are always having orgasms about. I fully agree. Monahan can be described as Swiss Army knife. The 3rd rnd pick should be guaranteed with a condition that it gets upgraded to a 2nd if the Jets win the Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Hughes probably could have done at least marginally better if he'd been patient and waited for a bidding war. 18 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: But I’m happy with a got a first now, rather than wait a month and risk an injury. I think, like Toffoli, HuGo decided on a price and made the deal when it was met ... circumstances can change if you wait ... not only SM possibly getting injured (e.g, Edmundson was a likely deadline. move last season, until he missed all of February) but also teams falling out of contention and adding players to the available pool ... and ... teams seen as potential trading partners falling out of contention and/or finding "internal solutions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: As much as I wanted them to come close to making the playoffs, at this point I'd rather see them drop right off. I so want them to get Lindstrom at the draft and they will probably need to be 4th or 5th to get him. Sans Monahan, the team "should" slip ... I expect Ottawa might have passed them anyway, and hope that Columbus and Minnesota also finish well and climb over Montreal ... Chicago, Anaheim and/or SJS doing so is likely too much to hope for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 40 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: I was hoping for more because of the Lindholm trade as well, but don’t forget that Flames took back $5m in salary for a guy who wasn’t being played by Vancouver - regardless of whether or not the Flames actually wanted Kuzmenko. The Canucks had been trying to move him for quite a while. That's it. The Kuzmenko salary dump is what got the Flames the rest of the package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 From my point of view, I'm happy Hughes made the deal rather than waiting and hoping that someone might pay more, and then potentially not getting a deal at all. Four first-round picks in the next two drafts now. That said, I really liked Monahan as a player. I wish him all the best in the 'peg--and will cling on to the faint hope that he might return as a UFA, as faint as that may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 In his "presser", Hughes was asked if he pursued prospects as an option to a first rounder ... he confirmed that he did, but that it would have had to be a "first round equivalent" prospect ... further, the teams he had discussions with were not interested in trading the prospects in which he expressed interest ... some "expert"-guest on TSN690 yesterday noted that teams are usually much more willing to trade first rounders than first round equivalent prospects because the pick is still just an anonymous concept, not a player in whom they have become "invested". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Calgary did the Habs a huge favour by moving Lindholm when they did as I don't think a first-rounder was really on the table until that swap happened. I had them getting a second and a mid-tier asset (third or a fourth depending on what year the second was) so this is a step up in my books. Could they have haggled for more? Sure, they could have tried. But that would have come with some risk either through injury or Winnipeg going and getting Henrique instead, taking them out of play which could have taken the first off the table. (I doubt there were many teams willing to give up a first here which is why Hughes moved as soon as he got one.) The fact they kept their last retention slot could come in handy too. I thought they'd need to retain to have a faint shot at a first so if they can use that to move someone else or as a third-party facilitator, that might be the other 'piece' of this trade some are hoping to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Sad to see him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: So now considering the Lindholm trade, and how expectations evolved from that deal 48 hours ago. How can this not feel underwhelming. I think people are massively understating the difference between Lindholm and Monahan... they are not exactly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: That's one of the key prisms to understanding that trade, actually. Many critics are seeing Kuzmenko as a "catch" for Calgary. But from Vancouver's side, he was basically a salary dump. On reflection, while I'm happy with the 1st and not outraged by the deal, I do think more should have been expected. Maybe not much more - e.g., an unconditional third or fourth. But something. Monahan is an excellent player who brings all those "intangibles" GMs are always having orgasms about. Hughes probably could have done at least marginally better if he'd been patient and waited for a bidding war. Or. more likely, Monaghan could have gotten injured again and tanked his value. As many professional commentators have noted the Monaghan deals are a masterclass in asset management. I'm happy that Hughes didn't try to overplay his hand and made the deal now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Plutarch said: I think people are massively understating the difference between Lindholm and Monahan... they are not exactly close. I think people are massively understating the value of the Kuzmenko salary dump...without it, Calgary would not have got the package it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: Prior to the Lindholm trade, consensus was a 1st or 2nd was going to be the return. So the 1st wasn't guaranteed. By the expectations to what Montreal actually got, this is an excellent deal. Montreal ended up getting 2 1sts, potentially 3rd and 74 games of service for taking on a cap dump. That's probably the best case scenario. The thing is if Winnipeg doesnt win the cup the 1st round pick will be in the early 20s and if they do, it will be 32... so the conditional is to ensure the value is better than 32nd overall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: I was hoping for more because of the Lindholm trade as well, but don’t forget that Flames took back $5m in salary for a guy who wasn’t being played by Vancouver - regardless of whether or not the Flames actually wanted Kuzmenko. The Canucks had been trying to move him for quite a while. Exactly. Great point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Good return, I expect the 1st to be flipped for another young player but I wouldn't mind them using it to draft another forward. Keeping the retention slot is huge if we're able to move Armia or Savard. The rest of the season won't be pretty with our current centre depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 9 minutes ago, Neech said: Good return, I expect the 1st to be flipped for another young player but I wouldn't mind them using it to draft another forward. Keeping the retention slot is huge if we're able to move Armia or Savard. The rest of the season won't be pretty with our current centre depth. Yup, we’re looking at a 30-game tank operation, basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brindavis Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: In my mind Habs are trading Winnipeg’s first, Calgary’s first and a young Dman such as Harris for a top 6 forward. Let’s go HuGo Newhook has been skating so he will likely be the third line centre but until he is ready to return, we are weak down the middle. This is what I would like to see happen too. Hughes et al are building up for something decent. As with Hutson, Reinbacher, Engstrom and Konyushkov (potentially) on their way to Laval next year, we have an overload of young defenders and we could see some assets moved at the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 OK Jets, you start that tailspin out of the playoffs anytime now! Overall got two 1st picks for Monahan, well done. Habs Trade Sean Monahan To Winnipeg – HabsWorld.net "Worth noting, Montreal did not retain any of Monahan’s contract as part of the move, leaving one slot open to potentially be used later in the season. Don’t expect that to be used on David Savard, however, as GM Kent Hughes indicated in a press conference after the trade that he isn’t looking to move the veteran rearguard. Speculatively, goaltender Jake Allen could be a possibility though but he does have another year at $3.85 million left on the books." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Any available overpayed Centremen around with expiring contracts this year or next? I think we should try to get one... Or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Plutarch said: I think people are massively understating the difference between Lindholm and Monahan... they are not exactly close. While Monahan is having a slightly better season this year (4 more goals, one fewer assist), since 19/20 Lindholm has significantly out-performed Monahan ... that may have been in large part due to injuries, but GMs care about such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 12 minutes ago, Dalhabs said: Any available overpayed Centremen around with expiring contracts this year or next? I think we should try to get one... Or two... Ryan Johansen has struggled in Colorado this year and has one year left at $4M (Nashville is also paying $4M). I thought if Monahan landed there that the Habs could take him back in the trade. Allen for him is pretty close cap-wise but would leave the Avs without a #2 centre so I'm not sure that idea is the most viable. But if they can land a better C, Johansen might be worth taking a flyer on. Radek Faksa in Dallas is at $3.25M through next season and is more of a bottom-six guy. The Stars are tight to the cap so he might be cheaper to acquire. Similarly, had Monahan landed there, I thought Faksa could be in the return. If you just want a warm body type of player, maybe Tyson Jost? He's making $2M to play in the minors right now (UFA this summer); I'm sure Buffalo would move him for next to nothing just to save payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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