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Habs sign Tyler Toffoli


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I like this move more than the Anderson one - which I see more of a roll the dice move where we gave up more than what we should have.


What I don’t like about the moves though is not getting that elite sniping winger, who ALWAYS gets at least 25+.  Taffoli seems like one of those good year, bad year type of players - hopefully that changes and he still scores 20+.

 

it would have been nice getting a pure sniper that is a true 1st liner and than adding a Taffoli.

 

I do think that what the moves do is give us some more legit 2nd line type scoring and we have a chance to have three potential scoring lines, IF:

1) The kids (Suzuki and KK) can take the next steps after a good show in the play-in and playoffs.

2) Taffoli can put back to back 20+ goal seasons

3) Anderson proves that the season he had 2 years ago wasn’t an outlier and he can stay healthy and score 20+

4) Drouin can get his head out of his ass and be the 55-70 point player he has the potential to be.

5) infusion of new blood improves our fizzling power power play.


I think we should be a playoff team, but i really wish we added some first line elite skill.

 

The lines I’d like to see are:

Tatar-Danault-Armia

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Toffoli-KK-Gallagher 

Lekonan-Evans-Poehling (if he has a good camp)

 

I’d trade Byron if someone will take him before the start of the season. I’d also like to move Weal to save Julien from himself.  
 

Looking forward, I’d let Tatar walk at the end of this year.  Even then given our contract situation, if KK breaks out, I don’t see how we can resign Gallagher and Danault.  I think it becomes an either or, but don’t know how we do both, with KK due a contract next year, Suzuki the year after (Romanov will need to be paid if he turns out to be what we hope he is).  What would be bad is letting all three - Tatar, Gallagher and Danault walk for no return.
 

Much better problem than what we have had in recent years and we should be a playoff team, but I still think a lot of ifs have to work out for that to happen.

 

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I dont think 4.25 million is an overpay for a 50 point winger. I do wonder where he fits in the lineup though. I like Armia and Gallagher ahead of him.

The difference between us appears to be that you expect Drouin to be an impact player.   As for me, I agree that that could conceivably happen, but I think a realistic assessment of Drouin h

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I also like this move more than the Anderson one which is a bit of a roll of the dice. Elite snipers are hard to find and nobody is giving them away in their prime or you have to pay 8 million\year on the free agent market,  you need to develop your own, hopefully that is Cole Caufield.  Toffoli had one bad year (2018-19), other than that he has been pretty consistent. 

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33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The lines I’d like to see are:

Tatar-Danault-Armia

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Toffoli-KK-Gallagher 

 Byron -Evans-Lehkonen

Poehling To AHL ( waivers exempt)

I like your lines but changed the fourth line.

I think it is better for Poehling to play lots of minutes in the AHL. If there is a season

I would have swapped Armia and Gallagher to keep or recent top line intact but now we have a choice to make and Kotkaniemi with Gallagher and Tofoli may turn out to be a dominant 3rd line
 

it will be fun to see the lineup during training camp

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Seeing that video with all of Toffoli's goals last year, makes me like this signing even more. He's got good hands around the net and a very good backhand shot! 

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Good signing, reasonable ticket and term.

 

My concern is positional. I thought Toffoli was a RW? I don't want guys playing out of position. Nor do I want guys who are hypothetically "multi-position" players who turn out to be way better at one of those positions.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that it is surprising that he signed for that amount and for 4 years.   If not for the Covid cap freeze he likely would have gotten a more money, possibly upwards of 2 mil+/yr. 

 

Toffoli must like the Habs chances because he's basically given them a discount.  Does anybody know if he was a Habs fan growing up? He is from Scarborough, but it is possible that he always wanted to be a Hab. 

 

Btw, Toffoli's profile on TSN says he is RW and LW. 

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This is an amazing deal, both term and salary. I like Hab29's lines posted above and we are a tough team to play against.

 

It will be interesting to see how MB deals with the salary cap problem as I don't think Byron is tradable under the current environment unless we pay to trade him.

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The situation reminds me a little bit of Vanek to Minny after his short stint in Montreal, yet in reverse.

 

Tyler Toffoli reminds me a little bit of Ryder because of his #73, his right handedness, his hair flow, and his ability to score goals. 
 

Canucks fans remind me a little bit about how I felt after losing Radulov.

 

All good things.

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On 10/12/2020 at 5:49 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

100%. It's very hard on D. Probably not so hard for FW, but still, I would appreciate it if any poster can shed any insight on Toffoli's merits as a LW specifically.

 

 

This frees us up not to rely on Drouin to be effective or productive. Since Drouin is a perpetual basket case, that is a major improvement to the structure of this team's roster.

 

Worst-case scenario (barring injury), this creates a healthy competition for ice at LW. An area of weakness is now an area of strength.

image.png

 

I agree with your point, and it is true, but you do also underline my concern, the ugly questions that need to be asked, because that scenario means someone is almost certainly going to be, performing below their inflated salary. Whether by a dip in their play resulting in a demotion that then doesn't provide them the opportunity for redemption, or by default by not having the opportunity to make good on their cap hit due to a bottom 6 role.

 

This signing ticks some positive boxes, another hard nosed player with a 200 foot game, a winger capable of 20 goals, and obviously forward depth. However I have learned to be weary of the cautionary tales from around the league when teams start plugging 3.5 million+ dollar guys on their bottom lines. From Hanzal in Dallas, and Sutter in Vancouver to Bonino in Nashville. These guys who carve themselves a path doing certain things in certain roles, don't just keep doing said things in lesser roles. Everyone of those cautionary tales, and the ones in between, became an issue either because they were unable to perform the same, in a lesser role than they had previous, which is natural, or their cap hit becomes too much for a roster to bear from a bottom 6 position.

 

I'm torn by what I do, and don't want to see happen at the same time, and that is this...

 

Drouin has a bangin' year a long side Suzuki and Anderson, Tatar has a usual, productive year a long side Danault and Gally, Toffoli has a dozen goals and 35 point season on an effective, but 3rd line none the less, with KK and Lehkonen/Armia. Now he can't make good on his cap hit, he can't be the 20 goal guy that everyone expected when we signed him, and the BS starts, and we all know the BS i'm talking about. This also pushes a guy like Armia into a potential 4th line position, he is an established 3rd line player for us with upside, who can ferry up to the top 6 when it is required, he is also in a no win, can't succeed position, at that point. It's fine and dandy to rally for forward depth, but at what cost when you start having large chunks of Salary cap percentages sitting in your bottom 6, and half those players are in frustrating positions where they are expected/want to perform to a certain standard, and don't have the opportunity to do so.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, huzer said:

 

 

Awesome, I figured there'd be a pic of him as a kid wearing a Habs jersey.   

 

I just watched his 1st press conference with Mtl media.  Toffoli said that he heard that the Habs  wanted him when he was a King, so the Habs have been after him for a while. 

 

Apparently, the Habs were also trying to get Anderson off CBJ for several years too but a trade didnt work out until this year. 

 

Its interesting that the Habs wanted 2 forwards for several years, and they just picked up both of them.  That is certainly reassuring, because if they wanted both for years then the Habs have definitely scouted them and know they would be a good fit for the team. 

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3 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Awesome, I figured there'd be a pic of him as a kid wearing a Habs jersey.   

 

I just watched his 1st press conference with Mtl media.  Toffoli said that he heard that the Habs  wanted him when he was a King, so the Habs have been after him for a while. 

 

Apparently, the Habs were also trying to get Anderson off CBJ for several years too but a trade didnt work out until this year. 

 

Its interesting that the Habs wanted 2 forwards for several years, and they just picked up both of them.  That is certainly reassuring, because if they wanted both for years then the Habs have definitely scouted them and know they would be a good fit for the team. 

Well, if that’s the case, I sure hope they didn’t want Alzner for a number of years before signing him.

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17 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

I agree with your point, and it is true, but you do also underline my concern, the ugly questions that need to be asked, because that scenario means someone is almost certainly going to be, performing below their inflated salary. Whether by a dip in their play resulting in a demotion that then doesn't provide them the opportunity for redemption, or by default by not having the opportunity to make good on their cap hit due to a bottom 6 role.

 

This signing ticks some positive boxes, another hard nosed player with a 200 foot game, a winger capable of 20 goals, and obviously forward depth. However I have learned to be weary of the cautionary tales from around the league when teams start plugging 3.5 million+ dollar guys on their bottom lines. From Hanzal in Dallas, and Sutter in Vancouver to Bonino in Nashville. These guys who carve themselves a path doing certain things in certain roles, don't just keep doing said things in lesser roles. Everyone of those cautionary tales, and the ones in between, became an issue either because they were unable to perform the same, in a lesser role than they had previous, which is natural, or their cap hit becomes too much for a roster to bear from a bottom 6 position.

 

I'm torn by what I do, and don't want to see happen at the same time, and that is this...

 

Drouin has a bangin' year a long side Suzuki and Anderson, Tatar has a usual, productive year a long side Danault and Gally, Toffoli has a dozen goals and 35 point season on an effective, but 3rd line none the less, with KK and Lehkonen/Armia. Now he can't make good on his cap hit, he can't be the 20 goal guy that everyone expected when we signed him, and the BS starts, and we all know the BS i'm talking about. This also pushes a guy like Armia into a potential 4th line position, he is an established 3rd line player for us with upside, who can ferry up to the top 6 when it is required, he is also in a no win, can't succeed position, at that point. It's fine and dandy to rally for forward depth, but at what cost when you start having large chunks of Salary cap percentages sitting in your bottom 6, and half those players are in frustrating positions where they are expected/want to perform to a certain standard, and don't have the opportunity to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between us appears to be that you expect Drouin to be an impact player.

 

As for me, I agree that that could conceivably happen, but I think a realistic assessment of Drouin has to be that he is what he is at this point: an erratic, unreliable #6 FW who goes through streaks where he looks like a top-3 FW. A smart organization, faced with this reality, will not waste time "hoping he lives up to his cap hit." Rather it will do what the Habs did an sign an anti-Drouin: a reliable, tough-nosed, 200-foot top-6 FW to give the coach someone who can be counted on in that slot. So I am not in the least bit bothered by the thought that Toffoli makes Drouin redundant. Frankly, if we could ship out Drouin tomorrow to address other needs, I'd do it in a split second. I've had my fill of the Galchenyuks and Kostitsyns and Drouins of the world.

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On 10/14/2020 at 12:21 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The difference between us appears to be that you expect Drouin to be an impact player.

 

As for me, I agree that that could conceivably happen, but I think a realistic assessment of Drouin has to be that he is what he is at this point: an erratic, unreliable #6 FW who goes through streaks where he looks like a top-3 FW. A smart organization, faced with this reality, will not waste time "hoping he lives up to his cap hit." Rather it will do what the Habs did an sign an anti-Drouin: a reliable, tough-nosed, 200-foot top-6 FW to give the coach someone who can be counted on in that slot. So I am not in the least bit bothered by the thought that Toffoli makes Drouin redundant. Frankly, if we could ship out Drouin tomorrow to address other needs, I'd do it in a split second. I've had my fill of the Galchenyuks and Kostitsyns and Drouins of the world.

When looking at the situation he described, I’d say Anderson is the more unrealistic option to have a banging year along Suzuki than Drouin. It shows to me that you are too hard on Drouin (and I disliked the Sergachev trade from the get-go). Drouin is more of a proven top (or second) line Left Winger, given the configuration of the Habs, than Anderson is a first line (or second line) right winger. 

In fact there isn’t such a huge discrepancy in production between:

 

Gallagher

Toffoli

Anderson

 

749 career points

1389 career games 

.539 points per game

 

versus

 

Tatar

Drouin

Byron

 

741 career points

1372 career games

.54 points per game

 

(the thought came from my own head that they were fairly equivalent, but I checked stats after I had already posted and added them in)

 

The biggest difference is that we also have Armia on the right and Lehkonen rounds out the left. Outside of that, the left side is more balanced with the right wing than you suggest. Anderson is capable of proving me wrong and scoring 25, but Byron is capable of 20 as well. 
 

**In fact when you add Armia and Lehkonen we get:

 

Left Wing

848/1663=.5099 ppg

 

Right Wing

860/1694=0.511 ppg


Pretty balanced offensively on both wings if you ask me.

 

————————————

 

Regardless that is all a digression. I came here to share an article about Toffoli that I enjoyed:

 

https://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey/2020-10-23/tyler-toffoli/j-avais-envie-de-faire-partie-de-l-aventure.php

 

It is in French but some points that remain in my thoughts:

 

- Toffoli did not want to leave LA and was angry he was traded

- He wants to play in a hockey crazy market (grew up near Toronto and played in Ottawa)

- He watched the playoffs last year and was intrigued by how the Canadiens played. Everyone worked hard and together.

- He liked the additions we made this off season and wanted to be part of the adventure.

- He thinks the Habs are good on paper and now it is up to them to prove it.

- He has played left wing in the past and would play there if needed. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

- He has played left wing in the past and would play there if needed. 

I keep hearing he plays both sides.

Was and is that the Habs main plan for him, to line up at LW?

 

Has he played a string of games in the NHL at LW?

Anderson hasn't though I take it?

 

Is that a stat that is tracked?

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1 hour ago, DON said:

I keep hearing he plays both sides.

Was and is that the Habs main plan for him, to line up at LW?

 

Has he played a string of games in the NHL at LW?

Anderson hasn't though I take it?

 

Is that a stat that is tracked?

 

Seems to me that LW vs RW vs C is pretty much a matter of where to lineup on faceoffs offensively ... nobody "stays in their lanes" anymore.

 

On defence I've heard that the defensive responsibilities of a centre are more demanding ... but recently read that some teams confer those responsibilities on the first forward back, not necessarily the designated "centre" ... but defensively the wings are a matter of side.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

I keep hearing he plays both sides.

Was and is that the Habs main plan for him, to line up at LW?

 

I expect that either Bergevin or Julien would be able to answer that. But they are not talking at the moment.

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50 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Seems to me that LW vs RW vs C is pretty much a matter of where to lineup on faceoffs offensively

So why are all saying Habs Right side is vastly stronger than Left side, it is because most cant flip flop wings/side.

 

Why doesnt Petry/Weber rarely ever play Left-d. Why do many d-suffer in their play on off wing. A few are fine with it and do well on either side, but not most.

 

It isnt what lane they are in, is much more than that, picking up pucks on backhand along the boards or receiving passes for off wing players is tougher.

 

Maybe Toffoli is equal on both sides I dont know, but i just kinda doubt it and was wondering if position icetime is tracked?

 

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42 minutes ago, DON said:

So why are all saying Habs Right side is vastly stronger than Left side, it is because most cant flip flop wings/side.

 

Why doesnt Petry/Weber rarely ever play Left-d. Why do many d-suffer in their play on off wing. A few are fine with it and do well on either side, but not most.

 

It isnt what lane they are in, is much more than that, picking up pucks on backhand along the boards or receiving passes for off wing players is tougher.

 

Maybe Toffoli is equal on both sides I dont know, but i just kinda doubt it and was wondering if position icetime is tracked?

 

Did not, and would never, suggest the same was true for defencemen ... but since forwards broke out of "table hockey" mode I still wonder why "side" it is such a big deal for wingers ... would any of the advanced stats guys have access to numbers about where in terms of side-to-side a player like Toffolli (for example) takes his shots and/or creates his assists ... that might shed an interesting light on the question.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Did not, and would never, suggest the same was true for defencemen ... but since forwards broke out of "table hockey" mode I still wonder why "side" it is such a big deal for wingers ... would any of the advanced stats guys have access to numbers about where in terms of side-to-side a player like Toffolli (for example) takes his shots and/or creates his assists ... that might shed an interesting light on the question.

Again, not a big deal, am just more curious is all (and is SFA else to discuss at the moment).

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55 minutes ago, DON said:

Again, not a big deal, am just more curious is all (and is SFA else to discuss at the moment).

I never knew Sven Andrighetto's middle initial was "F
 

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For wingers the issue is likely if they are right or left hand shot.    The majority of wingers with right shots would likely prefer to be LW so their stick is towards the centre of the ice.  ex: think of plays that start on the right side and the puck ends up lose on the left side.  A right hand shooter would be faster to get to the lose puck and would be able to shoot it quicker than a lefty.  i.e. a lefty would have to wait until the puck got to their left side.  

 

The issue that people are speaking of would be more applicable to swapping a right shooting LW to play RW, because it would the same issue I mentioned but on the opposite side.  i.e. a righty playing RW would have to wait until the puck got to their right side.  

 

Toffoli has already adjusted to playing RW.  There probably wouldn't be any issue with him playing on the left side because that should be his "natural" side.   I'm sorta confused as to why or how a right hand shot plays RW.  Theres way more lefty's than righty's.  LW are often leftys but thats because the team doesn't have enough righty's. 

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