Permanent Rumour Thread

[dlbalr]

Marek and Friedman on Dubois (starts at 6:54):

[DON]

Heard on TSN that Jets are (or may be?) more keen on keeping him, than a Shefiele or others and may blow the whole dysfunctional roster up.

 

[Commandant]

Just now, DON said:

Heard on TSN that Jets are (or may be?) more keen on keeping him, than a Shefiele or others and may blow the whole dysfunctional roster up.

 

 

If he really wants out, they can keep him for one year and then he's UFA. 

[DON]

2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

If he really wants out, they can keep him for one year and then he's UFA. 

Does he have any no trade list or what not?

 

Would you be keen on seeing Hughes pay up and get him this off-season? Seems jumping the gun on rebuild, but he is young.

[Commandant]

6 minutes ago, DON said:

Does he have any no trade list or what not?

 

You can't have a NTC before you are eligible to be an unrestricted free agent. 

 

He's an RFA this summer.... if he really wants out, he simply forces this to arbitration (or signs his qualifying offer) and becomes UFA a year from now. 

 

While he doesn't have a NTC, he can simply say I'm testing the market in July,.... trade me if you want but the acquiring team has to know that I'm a rental. 

[DON]

Just now, Commandant said:

 

You can't have a NTC before you are eligible to be a free agent. 

 

He's an RFA this summer.... if he really wants out, he simply forces this to arbitration (or signs his qualifying offer) and becomes UFA a year from now. 

 

While he doesn't have a NTC, he can simply say I'm testing the market in July,.... trade me if you want but the acquiring team has to know that I'm a rental. 

thanks

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Does he have any no trade list or what not?

 

Would you be keen on seeing Hughes pay up and get him this off-season? Seems jumping the gun on rebuild, but he is young.

I don’t think he’s done enough for me to want us to give up a lot of assets for him.  Particularly if he really wants to vine here and will be free in another year.  If he really wants to come here, he can say, I’ll only sign long term with Montreal if traded, or do a one year deal. Kind of like Kane at the deadline. Unlike Kane he can be traded to anyone, but I can’t see too many teams wanting to risk giving up too much for him unless they know he can resign him. I think teams would give up even less than a deadline acquisition, because there is no salary retention.

 

I only see two scenarios a team trades for him if he doesn’t want to sign long term, see him as a one year rental, or trade a player in similar situation (eg Calgary moving Tkachuk for Huberdeau).

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

18 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t think he’s done enough for me to want us to give up a lot of assets for him.  Particularly if he really wants to vine here and will be free in another year.  If he really wants to come here, he can say, I’ll only sign long term with Montreal if traded, or do a one year deal. Kind of like Kane at the deadline. Unlike Kane he can be traded to anyone, but I can’t see too many teams wanting to risk giving up too much for him unless they know he can resign him. I think teams would give up even less than a deadline acquisition, because there is no salary retention.

 

I only see two scenarios a team trades for him if he doesn’t want to sign long term, see him as a one year rental, or trade a player in similar situation (eg Calgary moving Tkachuk for Huberdeau).

 

 

 

I think the likeliest outcome may be a sign-and-trade a la Bo Horvat. 

 

I cannot believe PLD will take the position that he ONLY wants to play in Montreal. That would be a very foolish negotiating stance, for one thing - effectively giving the Habs all the cards, not just in negotiating with the Jets, but also in negotiating with his agent. Secondly, as great as Montreal is, I don’t know that I have ever heard of an impending-UFA player taking this position. Maaaaybe Kovalev. 

 

What PLD might be sincere about is that Montreal is his first choice. Fine. But once you hit July 1, if there a number of teams out there seeking a big, strong, young-ish 65-70-point C with significant upside, the situation can spin quickly out of control and you lose the player.

 

So, I would be open to moving *some* assets for him. Not gold-plated assets, but maybe secondary ones. Less than the Isles gave up for Horvat, but something. What pieces WPG would be interested in is another question. 

 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... So, I would be open to moving *some* assets for him. Not gold-plated assets, but maybe secondary ones. Less than the Isles gave up for Horvat, but something. What pieces WPG would be interested in is another question. 

 

 

Vancouver got Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a top-12 protected 2023 first for Horvat.

 

The Habs equivalent for Beauvillier would seem to be Dvorak ... AB a year and a half younger ... slightly cheaper ($4.15M with one year remaining versus $4.45M with one year remaining) ... AB scores slightly more often (18.5g/82gms versus 17), but CD is a slightly more productive playmaker (23a/82gm versus 19)

 

Raty (20 yrs-old, 6'02", 190 lbs LH Centre) was drafted 52nd overall but has yet to impress in NHL (15gm, 2g, 1a) or even particularly productive in the AHL (54-9-18) ... Ylonen would seem an upgrade (although he is a winger not a centre)

 

Horvat (26g, 29a per 82gm) is roughly equivalent to PLD (24, 33 / 82) in production, but is 3 years older.

 

I could live with Dvorak, Ylonen and a Top-12 protected 2024 pick for PLD ... but my gut tells me Winnipeg wouldn't.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Vancouver got Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a top-12 protected 2023 first for Horvat.

 

The Habs equivalent for Beauvillier would seem to be Dvorak ... AB a year and a half younger ... slightly cheaper ($4.15M with one year remaining versus $4.45M with one year remaining) ... AB scores slightly more often (18.5g/82gms versus 17), but CD is a slightly more productive playmaker (23a/82gm versus 19)

 

Raty (20 yrs-old, 6'02", 190 lbs LH Centre) was drafted 52nd overall but has yet to impress in NHL (15gm, 2g, 1a) or even particularly productive in the AHL (54-9-18) ... Ylonen would seem an upgrade (although he is a winger not a centre)

 

Horvat (26g, 29a per 82gm) is roughly equivalent to PLD (24, 33 / 82) in production, but is 3 years older.

 

I could live with Dvorak, Ylonen and a Top-12 protected 2024 pick for PLD ... but my gut tells me Winnipeg wouldn't.

 

That trade hinged on the view of Raty as a prospect. Your assessment seems plausible on its face, but some people seem to think of him as a serious prospect (and a C to boot), whereas Ylonen is certainly respectable but probably not at this level:

 

“Raty gives Vancouver a legitimate center prospect who could be a full-time NHLer as soon as next year and a player who plays a projectable, two-way game with power-forward upside. Raty may not project to the NHL as a No. 1 center, but he could slot in as a sound middle-six center with power-play utility.” https://thehockeynews.com/news/canucks-get-a-fascinating-prospect-in-aatu-raty

 

So I suspect that IF we want an exact analogy with the Horvat return, we’d need a more important piece than Ylonen. Maybe something like Mailloux would be closer to the mark (perhaps).

 

That said, is it indeed the case that PLD is comparable in trade value to Bo Horvat who, at the time of the trade, was scoring any a 60-goal pace? Especially if PLD is insisting only on the Habs as a destination for a sign-and-trade? Beats me. 🤷‍♂️

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That trade hinged on the view of Raty as a prospect. Your assessment seems plausible on its face, but some people seem to think of him as a serious prospect (and a C to boot), whereas Ylonen is certainly respectable but probably not at this level:

 

“Raty gives Vancouver a legitimate center prospect who could be a full-time NHLer as soon as next year and a player who plays a projectable, two-way game with power-forward upside. Raty may not project to the NHL as a No. 1 center, but he could slot in as a sound middle-six center with power-play utility.” https://thehockeynews.com/news/canucks-get-a-fascinating-prospect-in-aatu-raty

 

So I suspect that IF we want an exact analogy with the Horvat return, we’d need a more important piece than Ylonen. Maybe something like Mailloux would be closer to the mark (perhaps).

 

That said, is it indeed the case that PLD is comparable in trade value to Bo Horvat who, at the time of the trade, was scoring any a 60-goal pace? Especially if PLD is insisting only on the Habs as a destination for a sign-and-trade? Beats me. 🤷‍♂️

Harris may be a D prospect with the type of value Raty has

LD is a position of strength for the Habs and trading Mailloux may turn out to be similar to trading Sergachev

[Commandant]

Dubois is a pure rental, and the Habs shouldn't pay more than the Rental price. 

 

Florida pick and a B-Level Prospect... (one of Norlinder, Ylonen, Heineman, Struble, etc...)

 

Dubois isn't as good as Horvat so that isn't a comparable to me.   Also the Isles dumped a contract in Beauvillier so had to increase value for that reason too. 

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Mailloux is to much...

[DON]

https://theathletic.com/4516857/2023/05/15/nhl-offseason-trade-board-hellebuyck-maple-leafs/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail

 

Not rumour just put a smile on your face to here they are in a tough spot,

 

"Marner, too, has a no-move clause kicking in July 1, which takes him to possible free agency in 2025. Tavares, 32, has two years left on his $11 million annual contract with a full no-move.

If the Leafs had a magic wand, you know they’d make that Tavares contract disappear. Because they can’t, Nylander, a year from free agency, is the likeliest to go. He’s just easier to move, at basically half the price of the others."

[Prime Minister Koivu]

5 minutes ago, DON said:

https://theathletic.com/4516857/2023/05/15/nhl-offseason-trade-board-hellebuyck-maple-leafs/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail

 

Not rumour just put a smile on your face to here they are in a tough spot,

 

"Marner, too, has a no-move clause kicking in July 1, which takes him to possible free agency in 2025. Tavares, 32, has two years left on his $11 million annual contract with a full no-move.

If the Leafs had a magic wand, you know they’d make that Tavares contract disappear. Because they can’t, Nylander, a year from free agency, is the likeliest to go. He’s just easier to move, at basically half the price of the others."

IMO

 

The best move for the leafs is to trade Mathews for top end prospects to try and fill out their roster. 
 

I don’t care what Mathews has said publicly, I don’t believe that he intends to return to the leafs. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

36 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

IMO

 

The best move for the leafs is to trade Mathews for top end prospects to try and fill out their roster. 
 

I don’t care what Mathews has said publicly, I don’t believe that he intends to return to the leafs. 

 

I think Mathews is a pretty honest guy and will sign an extension. You don't trade young stud centres especially if they are willing to sign an extension.  Tavares is untradeable. It comes down to moving Marner/Nylander if they want to make a big move. They need a stud defenseman. 

[DON]

Dunno, just love that their recipe & efforts backfired or didnt pan out.

I was kinda worried it might work after they added Tavares.

 

 

[Commandant]

Yeah, I wouldn't move Matthews unless the Leafs are 100% sure that he's not signing. 

 

Matthews seems like one of the few players who likes the harsh media spotlight and being the centre of attention. 

 

I don't think he's leaving.

 

I mean the only place he might leave for would be Arizona IMO, but with that situation up in the air, I doubt he'd want to sign with a team and see them move to Salt Lake or Houston or KC or wherever. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I see Mathews as wanting out of the Canadian market and the constant questions about his talent and commitment. 
 

I don’t think he intends to sign in Toronto in any way. 
 

We will find out soon enough!

[PMAC]

It was well worth the declining draft pick from Florida to see the Leafs implode like this. This exactly what I was hoping for. According to Chris Johnston the leading external candidate for the Leafs GM job is Brad Treliving with the other experienced candidates being Marc Bergevin, Peter Chiarelli, Chuck Fletcher !, and Stan Bowman. 
I can see why Dubas thought he had more leverage with that candidate pool. Treliving might be ok, but the rest except Bowman have trashed their former franchises. I hope  they hire Fletcher😎

[tomh009]

.... and Bowman has other issues.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:40 AM, PMAC said:

It was well worth the declining draft pick from Florida to see the Leafs implode like this. This exactly what I was hoping for. According to Chris Johnston the leading external candidate for the Leafs GM job is Brad Treliving with the other experienced candidates being Marc Bergevin, Peter Chiarelli, Chuck Fletcher !, and Stan Bowman. 
I can see why Dubas thought he had more leverage with that candidate pool. Treliving might be ok, but the rest except Bowman have trashed their former franchises. I hope  they hire Fletcher😎

 

AHAHAHAAAHAA I love it 👍 A bunch of old-school retreads.

 

I do hold Treliving in some esteem and feel he didn’t get rewarded for some pretty damned shrewd GMing under disastrous circumstances. So he’d be a solid hire. The rest are quite amusing to contemplate. If it’s MB, we can be fully confident he will destroy the organization; the question is whether he will be able to pull off some of his patented “patchwork” moves to position the Leafs for short-term success.

 

Specifics aside, I love the mindset that this rumour is revealing. Backward-looking, uncreative, NHL old boys. Excelsior!

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Specifics aside, I love the mindset that this rumour is revealing. Backward-looking, uncreative, NHL old boys. Excelsior!

 

Rmours are a dime a dozen as media needs something to discuss so I put little stock in them.  I do think that Toronto is a difficult place to be a GM as you are under the microscope daily so I definitely see the need for experience as every move will be scrutinized by multiple news organizations and you need someone who can handle it, not really a job for a rookie GM to cut their teeth.   Although you look at someone like Kent Hughes who has handled Montreal very well but expectations were also a little different. 

[Commandant]

If you had a hockey player who is undisputedly top 3 of all time.

 

Comes from a hockey family including a relative who was drafted 1st overall.

 

Had a ton of team success captaining the team at the highest level.

 

Had a ton of education, including being a doctor.

 

Is respected by all their peers.

 

Had three years experience in a front office with tons of regular season success but yes some playoff failures.

 

Do you think this person would get GM interviews?

 

So.why doesnt Haley Wickenheiser?  Old boys club indeed.

 

3 teams looking for GMs and not even an interview.

 

[GHT120]

14 hours ago, Commandant said:

If you had a hockey player who is undisputedly top 3 of all time.

 

Comes from a hockey family including a relative who was drafted 1st overall.

 

Had a ton of team success captaining the team at the highest level.

 

Had a ton of education, including being a doctor.

 

Is respected by all their peers.

 

Had three years experience in a front office with tons of regular season success but yes some playoff failures.

 

Do you think this person would get GM interviews?

 

So.why doesnt Haley Wickenheiser?  Old boys club indeed.

 

3 teams looking for GMs and not even an interview.

 

Very fair question ... but her "management experience" is less than a year ... and it is in player development, not contracts, drafting/scouting or trade-related (which is not to say she may not have had input in those areas) ... she likely needs a bit more experience and perhaps to diversify into more mainstream GM roles ... but given a couple of more years she absolutely should be on every GM search list ... but if it was a recently retired NHL all-time great they likley would at least get consideration.