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STANLEY CUP FINAL - Game 5 - Tampa vs. Habs - 8 PM


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29 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

And therein rests my concern ... the Habs remains a bubble team ... Carey was very good these playoffs and last post-season ... but in between he was 42nd in Sv% amongst goalies with at least 15 games last season (not the perfect goalie stat but generally reflective of play) ... he was 32nd the year before ... Habs can't plan the next season's roster on the assumption that Price will repeat his post season performances.

 

Personally, I want more than hope when it comes to playoffs ... the team proved it was built for the playoffs, but what took them to the Cup Final will not (IMO) automatically translate to regular season success

 

Don't think anyone is saying the Habs will miss the playoffs ... and the Habs certainly earned their way to the Final ... but they also could have been out in five against Toronto if Price wasn't a Frackin' wall in that O/T and Galchenyuk hadn't forgotten he wasn't a Hab anymore ... their success was hard fought and well-earned, but making the Cup Final doesn't change that they are (as you said) a bubble team ... it may seem cold, but the focus is now next season ... it is not meant in any way to denigrate what was accomplished ... but the Habs (and all the other teams) now have 10 days to finalize their expansion draft protection lists (including taking advantage of any opportunities with teams that want to get picks/prospects rather than losing then to Seattle for nothing) and then 4 days to then make any deals with Seattle ... but that is concurrent with both final preparations for the NHL draft two days after the Kraken draft and Free Agency four days after the NHL draft ... being prepared to make the playoffs next season may depend largely on what happens in the next 3-4 weeks.

We are not a legit playoff team in the Atlantic, but we may better than a bubble if we make the right moves. The teams that make the playoffs for sure are Tampa, Boston, Toronto (Toronto is the ultimate regular season team). Florida is also good on paper, but you never know with them - kind of like us.

 

we don’t don’t know which regular season Price we’ll get or how healthy he will be. What he proved is that when he’s on, he can still be a top 5 goalie in this league. We need to Allan, or an equivalent backup.

 

Offensively, I think Suzuki is ready to be the top centre. For the second year in a row, we don’t know what KK is - 2nd line C? 3rd line?  Will he be consistent?  Evans is at LEAST a 4 line centre.

 

I like us on wing:

1. Caufield- Anderson

2. Taffoli- Would prefer a Gallagher replacement 

3. Lekhonan- Armia

4. Perry - replacement 

 

as long as Suzuki and KK are good we should be good up front. It would be nice to sign Danault for under $4m - I’d be scared to pay more than that - especially with term.

 

we need to have a new top D - better than Petry would be ideal. Makar is my wet dream. Slim chance, but let’s screw over the Avs for stealing Roy if we can.

 

I feel better about the core after this year’s run, but we are going to be in a much tougher fight to make the playoffs.  We can’t be thinking we got to the finals, let’s go with the same team.  If we make the right moves, we have the potential to be the #2 team in the Atlantic. If we don’t fix the D and live off this year’s run, I think we miss the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The 2021 Habs were a genuine Cup contender. They didn’t look like it during the regular season, but neither did the 2012/14 LA Kings. If you get to the Finals, you are a Cup contender. By definition ... That said, the anxiety over whether we can make it back to the playoffs next season is legitimate ...

Completely agree ... and having that concern is not (IMO) ignoring the great work/effort/sacrifice of the players the last seven weeks ... as the investment brokers say, "Past success does not guarantee future performance."

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... The two keys to this run - elite Price, and the grinding Clydesdales on the back end - cannot at all be trusted to play at that level over 82 games. In fact, we know with near-absolute certainty that they will not. We will need a more multi-dimensional D if we want to be more than a bubble team IMHO. ...

I think one factor why will be the difference in regular season officiating and playoff tolerance ... plus ... playing Weber, Petry, Chariot and Edmundson 23+ minutes pregame is not a sustainable strategy ... 

 

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... (Personally, I worry that the aging out of Weber will continue to worsen; at some point, perhaps as early as next playoff, he will not be able to do recover that extra gear in the crunch. That is another ticking time-bomb given the way the D is constructed). 

 

We need another active off-season from our GM.

I agree ... also, Petry has bucked the trend by having his best seasons from 29-33 ... ***IF*** he eventually "loses a step" (particularly stop-start/agility) it may impact his game even more than it does Weber's ... don't see it as an issue next season but it will likely come at some point.

 

 

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1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

A lot of complaining about the d on this team but the biggest issue is a lack of offensive creativity and fire power. The forward group is missing the high end skill as it has for years.

They do not generate enough offensive zone time, sustained pressure to wear out opposing d, they do not create off the rush with any consistency and are impotent at scoring.

Better forwards will make the d look a lot better ...

Don't disagree ... but better puck movers on the back-end would reduce the habs defensive zone time and support the forwards in creating for offence

 

 

1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

Danualt/Gallagher/Lehks are all good players, but not too 6 forwards ...

Not certain it is fair to say Gallagher isn't ... his injuries this season and in the playoffs may have an impact going forward ... and I had concerns about committing to him for six seasons at $6.5M because of his size and aggressive style ... but last season was his second best of his career in goals/60 ... if he is not in next season's top 6 he will (IMO) be an ELITE 3rd liner.

 

 

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

...Tampa fans on the other hand, are a bunch of fait weather bums.

Think that is unfair ... like many teams their attendance drops when they weren't successful, but never precipitously ... 15,497 was their low since 2001-02 ... over 17,000 since 2010

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25 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Completely agree ... and having that concern is not (IMO) ignoring the great work/effort/sacrifice of the players the last seven weeks ... as the investment brokers say, "Past success does not guarantee future performance."

 

I think one factor why will be the difference in regular season officiating and playoff tolerance ... plus ... playing Weber, Petry, Chariot and Edmundson 23+ minutes pregame is not a sustainable strategy ... 

 

I agree ... also, Petry has bucked the trend by having his best seasons from 29-33 ... ***IF*** he eventually "loses a step" (particularly stop-start/agility) it may impact his game even more than it does Weber's ... don't see it as an issue next season but it will likely come at some point.

 

 

 

Yep, if Petry regresses then we miss the playoffs for sure. And I take your point that it could happen at any time. He's one of those guys who seems ageless, and strong skating defencemen often seem to last well into their 30s, but any time you are heavily-dependent on a core guy entering his mid-30s you are playing with fire. All the more reason to move heaven and earth to find a legit top-4 puck-mover.

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10 hours ago, Toronthab said:

In an ideal world I would see Drouin returning and flourishing with us. We could have used his skills a lot setting up Troffoli. But I don't see that as likely. I can see him deciding and agreeing that a fresh start somewhere else might be best. But I'd rather have him forgive all of us fanatics and come back to play. I'd welcome him. 

Agree ... both in the ideal and the unlikely ... tough to guess what trading him would look like ... with say $1.5 retained I see him as having good value ... or, Seattle might be interested ... there is even a LottoMax-ish chance that he asks out of his contract so he can decide where he goes ... BTW, he is 3.5 months past the limit for a "under 26/one-third" buyout 

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

yeah, but he is better suited to a bottom six role.

his offensive upside in so limited and is not a real top six forward anymore.

(1) Love Gallagher as a player ... (2) A $6.5M 3rd/4th liner is a cap problem ... don't think he is there now ... but he may be in a couple of seasons ... for the right deal, I would be open to trading him ... despite his HEART being as big as MB's biceps and his being part of the very soul of the team

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... The point is, we need a guy with something like his offensive acumen, but who is not a complete disaster in every other facet of the game. We also do not need yet another immobile D-man like Weber who is all shot and nothing else on the PP. We need puck-movers and distributors, a creative d-man who can make things happen and keep the other team off-balance, especially on the PP ...

100% agree that is a major need

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3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think it’s obvious that we have some solid players up front (young and old), and when we have Carey Price, we simply are a contender from here on out. Sure, he can have a poor season and this will change things but with him between the pipes there is always hope for a strong run. 
 

This is without reiterating that the team in front of him is improved over years past.
 

Our defense as an entire corps is a lot stronger than given credit for, and Weber and Petry were both playing without the ability to use their hands. I simply would have preferred we went with our group in the final two games, rather than Merrill and Gustafsson. 
 

An upgrade within the d corps is fine, but it’s not like that single move would change us from a bubble team to a cup contender. 
 

Anyway, it’s easy to say that the Habs will miss the playoffs next year just like Dallas did this year, but it’s too negative to say that “the fear is that our GM thinks we are a cup contender” immediately after having reached the Stanley Cup final.

 

It’s akin to saying the run was a fluke, which it was not. In addition, I am not sure what the statement is even trying to insinuate, that Bergevin will not make any moves just because he thinks this team is a real contender? I mean, that is just a completely irrational assumption and quite needless to say, given the reality that it is much more likely that Bergevin will indeed continue to try and improve the team.

I agree. Bergevin still doesn’t get the respect in this forum he deserves. 
He knew the team he has built and fired the coaches that he thought he needed to fire to get the team to perform like this

He also was right on how he managed the cap.

 

I think he knows his team well and will prune it into shape to _BECOME_ a cup contender

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58 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

 

as long as Suzuki and KK are good we should be good up front. It would be nice to sign Danault for under $4m - I’d be scared to pay more than that - especially with term.

 

 

 

It's crazy to think Danault is worth that little. 

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Offer sheet to Makar.  $10.5m to $11m/7 yrs.  

To make sure you have room:

1-expose Weber - I think his value is high as it’s going to get

2-trade Gallagher and start picking up picks you will lose from the offer sheet

3. Trade for Dunn - should be cheap 

 

If you get Makar, D for next year:

Makar, Petry, Edumundaon, Romanov, Chairot, Kulak, with potential of a another prospect progressing 

 

 

 

Makar is not the best offer sheet candidate. Dante Fabro is the perfect candidate for an offer sheet

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Offer sheet to Makar.  $10.5m to $11m/7 yrs.  

To make sure you have room:

1-expose Weber - I think his value is high as it’s going to get

2-trade Gallagher and start picking up picks you will lose from the offer sheet

3. Trade for Dunn - should be cheap 

 

If you get Makar, D for next year:

Makar, Petry, Edumundaon, Romanov, Chairot, Kulak, with potential of a another prospect progressing 

 

1) The only way Weber is exposed is if his injuries will cost him a significant chunk of next season (and even then it's in question).  He will be protected otherwise.  Also, it's still doubtful Seattle would take that cap hit on even though Weber had a strong playoffs.

 

2) Gallagher has a full no-move clause and has never suggested he wants to leave Montreal.  His contract is about to turn into a negative-value one and they're not going to sell low on him.  He's not getting traded.

 

3) The asking price for Dunn remains a 1st round pick (at least as of a few weeks ago).  That's not cheap.  I could see it the price dropping a bit before expansion but acquiring him forces another defenceman to be unprotected that they don't want to leave unprotected.    

 

And after all that, Colorado probably still matches the offer sheet.

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4 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


Yes. Yes, they are.

 

Didn’t read the rest.


your loss… 

 

and no, they are not. They played over their heads and Price was awesome.. it was a very impressive run and I enjoyed it a lot. 
 

They were not even close to Tampa. They might not even make the playoffs next year.

 

This team isn’t a tweak away from a regular cup contender. There is much work still to be done. They do have some promising kids but they need more scoring and better D. 

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11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Makar is not the best offer sheet candidate. Dante Fabro is the perfect candidate for an offer sheet

 

How so?  Nashville is loaded in cap space.  Ideal teams for offer sheets are those that are cap or cash-strapped and the Predators don't fit under either category.  

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5 hours ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

I can't ever remember hearing anything from the losing team after the last game, outside of when a losing player is awarded the Conn Smythe, i.e. J.S. Giguere. And even then I don't think he stuck around for media on NBC.

 

 

Why would NBC care about the Leafs? My gosh the persecution complex this fan base has.

 

To the first part, ok, we remember differently. For example, when a team loses the Super Bowl, the networks always question a few players on the other team. 

 

To the second part, I believe the individual making that comment lives in Canada and wasn't specifically referring to NBC.

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48 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

1) The only way Weber is exposed is if his injuries will cost him a significant chunk of next season (and even then it's in question).  He will be protected otherwise.  Also, it's still doubtful Seattle would take that cap hit on even though Weber had a strong playoffs.

 

2) Gallagher has a full no-move clause and has never suggested he wants to leave Montreal.  His contract is about to turn into a negative-value one and they're not going to sell low on him.  He's not getting traded.

 

3) The asking price for Dunn remains a 1st round pick (at least as of a few weeks ago).  That's not cheap.  I could see it the price dropping a bit before expansion but acquiring him forces another defenceman to be unprotected that they don't want to leave unprotected.    

 

And after all that, Colorado probably still matches the offer sheet.

If they match they match. But I’d give it a go. make it tough for them. Landeskog is up this year (some Avs beat writers have suggested dumping him), MacKinnon will need to get paid, and Rantanan is already making over $9m. It’s too bad Hughes isn’t available, because it would have been even harder for the knuckleheads to match. I’dd really like to try and go for that 21-23 year old dman. Not likely to get them in a trade, so an RFA offer sheet seems like the best option.   We have some good young forwards, need that stud D that can be the QB.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

...It would be nice to sign Danault for under $4m - I’d be scared to pay more than that - especially with term ...

 

1 hour ago, Neech said:

It's crazy to think Danault is worth that little. 

Comparable signings since 19/20:

  • Joel Eriksson EK - 8 yrs @ $5.25M after a breakout 25g/82gms season
  • RNH - 8 yrs @ $5.125M - 28g/82gms scorer over the last 4 seasons (albeit with McDavid/Draisaitl)
  • Adam Lowry - 5 yrs@$3.25M - slightly better scorer (less assists) in a less offensive role
  • Dylan Strome - 2 yrs@$3M - better scorer - don't know that Danault would consider 2 years
  • Pierre-Luc Dubois - 2 yrs@$5M - presumed 1C scoring centre
  • Anthony Cirelli - 3 yrs@$4.8M - 18 g/82gms - on a CUP contender in a no-state tax state
  • Mikael Granlund - 1 yr@$3.75M - 22g/82gms previous 5 seasons

IMO Lowry is the best comparison ... Danault is better defensively but defence only gets paid so much ... makes $3.74-4M the range I would would look at.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Offer sheet to Makar.  $10.5m to $11m/7 yrs. 

I don't believe Makar is eligible for an offer sheet as he has only played for two NHL seasons (2018-19 was playoffs only).

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1 minute ago, tomh009 said:

I don't believe Makar is eligible for an offer sheet as he has only played for two NHL seasons (2018-19 was playoffs only).

 

He's RFA and eligible according to cap friendly.  Its not listed as 10.2c

 

That said no way Colorado lets him go as they have tons of space.

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Interesting stuff. Kudos to the team again for such a wonderful resolve and effort which carried them to the peak for a peek. And of course our indigenous issue..... 

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1 hour ago, huzer said:

To the first part, ok, we remember differently. For example, when a team loses the Super Bowl, the networks always question a few players on the other team. 

 

To the second part, I believe the individual making that comment lives in Canada and wasn't specifically referring to NBC.

 

I could be wrong about other sports since I don't watch the celebrations as closely as I do the NHL, but I don't recall hearing from any Chiefs or Rays last year, only Bucs and Dodgers. But in hockey, I definitely don't remember ever hearing anything from the losers until at least after the team photo is taken.  

 

Yeah, he cleared that up in a subsequent post. We were talking about NBC's coverage specifically, so I assumed he was as well.

 

Anyways, apologies if I came off overly harsh. Fans claiming the league or media is against them is one of my pet peeves, so combined with the loss... And it's not just Habs fans. It's any team or sport. Jackets fans think the war room in Toronto hates them and that the national media ignores them. As if winning one playoff series in 21 years makes them nationally relevant. Or Notre Dame fans who think anti-Catholic bias from the refs and media holds them back.

 

Now Chris Lee, he is an actually problem.

 

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51 minutes ago, Commandant said:

He's RFA and eligible according to cap friendly.  Its not listed as 10.2c

 

That said no way Colorado lets him go as they have tons of space.

 

Their 25.5m in cap space is down to 17.5 with Johnson and Francouz off LTIR. Then besides Makar, they have to resign Landeskog and Grubauer as well. They will surely pay Makar whatever it takes, but they are in a tough cap situation coming up.

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

How so?  Nashville is loaded in cap space.  Ideal teams for offer sheets are those that are cap or cash-strapped and the Predators don't fit under either category.  

IMHO his offer sheet would be in the range costing a first and third round pick and he is a RD:

$4,110,733 - $6,166,096

 

A better fit for the Habs

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5 hours ago, brobin said:


and no, they are not. They played over their heads and Price was awesome.. it was a very impressive run and I enjoyed it a lot. 
 

They were not even close to Tampa. They might not even make the playoffs next year.

 

This team isn’t a tweak away from a regular cup contender. There is much work still to be done. They do have some promising kids but they need more scoring and better D. 

 

110%!!

 

Congrats Brobin!!  It seems like the 2 of us are the most realistic people on this forum.  i.e. the manner in which the Habs made it to the Cup this year should be obvious that it is not repeatable.

 

It is not a reasonable line of thinking or strategy to expect the Habs to return to the Cup Finals by planning on:

A) Price repeating playing his best hockey for the longest stretch he has ever done, but be even better next time. 

B) the 2nd best player on 1st rnd opponent gets concussed in Game 1 and is out of the series.

C)  the 2nd best player on 2nd rnd opponent in Game 1 gets suspended for 4 games

D)  the 3rd rnd oppositions #2C in Game 1 gets concussed and misses 3 games. 

 

So often that teams and fans are delusional when their team makes it to the 3rd or 4th round.  There seems to be an expectation that they are guaranteed to repeat it and that they will do even better next year.   The unfortunate reality is that basically never happens. 

 

The sad truth is that most teams that get to the 3rd or 4th round very few make it back any time soon.  Sure, Vegas has made it to the 3rd rnd 3 or 4 times in 5 years, but thats an exception and certainly is not the norm. 

 

In fact, most teams that were good enough to actually win the Cup rarely make it back to even the 3rd rnd the next year.  After all, the President Trophy winner rarely wins the Cup, because upsets happen all the time.  People need to realize that Tampa is only the 6th team since 1967 to win 2 in a row. 

 

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