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STANLEY CUP FINAL - Game 5 - Tampa vs. Habs - 8 PM


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18 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

A better d core is not the issue. The individuals on Montreal top 4 are all excellent. The issue for me is a more balanced d core. One of Chiarot, Weber, or (Hopefully not) Edmonson,  need to be switched for a puck mover. But I do agree that the lack of a puck mover was the biggest hole on this team in this playoff. 

 

A better d-core is the issue, and although I agree the Habs need better puck moving dmen I believe the bigger issue was lack of dmen that can shoot.   i.e. their dmen had a ton of great scoring chances but the end result was not enough goals.  

 

They need more dmen that have Gustafssons skill of knowing when to do a 1 timer, slapshot or wrist shot.  Other than Gustafsson I believe the only other 2 dmen that attempted a wrist shot were Weber and Romy, and they both scored.  

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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I share your concern about complacency. This was a “built for the playoffs” team for sure, but you also need to be able to make the playoffs. I’m not sure this group gets that done next year. It will tell us a lot about MB whether he rests on his laurels or continues to push.

 

On your specifics:

 

-Weber will be protected. Lehkonen should be too.

-Perry, Armia, and Danault *should* all be re-signed. But Danault has to be reasonable. If he isn’t, you cut him loose and cross your fingers.

-I agree that Gally should not be considered untouchable, but I will be absolutely gobsmacked if MB is willing to move him.

-and yes, this team has one really big weakness: lack of a quality top-4 puck-mover to complement Petry. If MB is serious about another run, he will need to get one. 

 

To me, the single biggest key to reaching the playoffs again will be Allen or an Allen substitute. If we expect Price to carry us for 82 games we are fools, plain and simple. 

Dumping Gally would be a bad move. We don't have another player who can supply the organ for a heart transplant. He had a busted thumb and still played like the warrior he is. Besides. He's Irish! 

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In an ideal world I would see Drouin returning and flourishing with us. We could have used his skills a lot setting up Troffoli. But I don't see that as likely. I can see him deciding and agreeing that a fresh start somewhere else might be best. But I'd rather have him forgive all of us fanatics and come back to play. I'd welcome him. 

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4 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Kucherov public enemy number one after his classless gloating?

Next season Habs fans will let him hear it.

 

Habs players will let him feel it.

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Kucherov public enemy number one after his classless gloating?

Where is Matt Cooke when we need him?

I was abit ok with them winning until I saw that clip just now.

Now just fxxk them! Crush that a-hole next year.

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6 hours ago, huzer said:

I flipped it over to the NHL network after a bit. The last few minutes on NBC wasn’t cup related, they were just saying their goodbyes. There are usually one or two quick quotes from the opposing team. 
 

I do guarantee had it been an American team, they would’ve at least got some fluff quote from the coach or something.

 

I can't ever remember hearing anything from the losing team after the last game, outside of when a losing player is awarded the Conn Smythe, i.e. J.S. Giguere. And even then I don't think he stuck around for media on NBC. 

 

6 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Maybe Weber Petry gallager and toffoli  can get season ending surgery, load up on replacements, go out and sign a couple permanent injured dudes and sign a couple more then they can all return at 110% on game one of the playoffs.

 

Sure, if they can sign Dougie Hamilton, Tyson Barrie, Zach Hyman, and Kyle Palmieri.

 

6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If it was the leafs…. It would have been all about the leafs. Just saying.

 

Why would NBC care about the Leafs? My gosh the persecution complex this fan base has.

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Makes sense that Toffoli was injured as well as others - what doesn’t is this - was an injured Toffoli et al better options than KK and Tatar?

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Thoughts…

 

yes, usually Bettman compliments the losing team. He ignored the habs. 
 

I too am a bit worried that management will assume this team is a real cup contender. They are not. As others have said, they need some defence improvements and some upgrades up front.

 

I wonder about Gallagher. His style of play can lead to a rapid falloff in performance. He hasn’t been great all year and the injuRies are adding up. If we could get a great return I would be okay with losing him,  but only for a high return.

 

depth… if all these players were so banged up, why were we not using some of the depth. Could Tatar or KK not replaced Gallagher? Maybe give tofolli a night or two off? Perry and Weber I get as there are no replacements for them.

 

I also agree on the backup… Price did well because he was far more rested then in the past.

 

I really look forward to seeing the kids take the next step… Suzuki and CC took some big steps. I hope Romanov gets more play time next season to develop.

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16 minutes ago, brobin said:

Thoughts…

 

yes, usually Bettman compliments the losing team. He ignored the habs. 
 

I too am a bit worried that management will assume this team is a real cup contender. They are not.


Yes. Yes, they are.

 

Didn’t read the rest.

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26 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


Yes. Yes, they are.

 

Didn’t read the rest.

 

We certainly gave credence to the idea off being built for the playoffs so I agree with you.

 

However, we barely got to the playoffs and with a better division next season I'm a little concerned that we won't make it to the playoffs.

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15 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

We certainly gave credence to the idea off being built for the playoffs so I agree with you.

 

However, we barely got to the playoffs and with a better division next season I'm a little concerned that we won't make it to the playoffs.

I think it’s obvious that we have some solid players up front (young and old), and when we have Carey Price, we simply are a contender from here on out. Sure, he can have a poor season and this will change things but with him between the pipes there is always hope for a strong run. 
 

This is without reiterating that the team in front of him is improved over years past.
 

Our defense as an entire corps is a lot stronger than given credit for, and Weber and Petry were both playing without the ability to use their hands. I simply would have preferred we went with our group in the final two games, rather than Merrill and Gustafsson. 
 

An upgrade within the d corps is fine, but it’s not like that single move would change us from a bubble team to a cup contender. 
 

Anyway, it’s easy to say that the Habs will miss the playoffs next year just like Dallas did this year, but it’s too negative to say that “the fear is that our GM thinks we are a cup contender” immediately after having reached the Stanley Cup final.

 

It’s akin to saying the run was a fluke, which it was not. In addition, I am not sure what the statement is even trying to insinuate, that Bergevin will not make any moves just because he thinks this team is a real contender? I mean, that is just a completely irrational assumption and quite needless to say, given the reality that it is much more likely that Bergevin will indeed continue to try and improve the team.

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

... However, we barely got to the playoffs and with a better division next season I'm a little concerned that we won't make it to the playoffs.

I share the concern ... this was a great run ... and the team clearly was built for the  playoffs ... but making the playoffs next season will be more difficult than it was this season ... the next few weeks will be very interesting ... with the expansion draft and the flat cap, roster building for next season it will be a challenging offseason.

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The 2021 Habs were a genuine Cup contender. They didn’t look like it during the regular season, but neither did the 2012/14 LA Kings. If you get to the Finals, you are a Cup contender. By definition.

 

That said, the anxiety over whether we can make it back to the playoffs next season is legitimate. The two keys to this run - elite Price, and the grinding Clydesdales on the back end - cannot at all be trusted to play at that level over 82 games. In fact, we know with near-absolute certainty that they will not. We will need a more multi-dimensional D if we want to be more than a bubble team IMHO.

 

And as far as the back end goes, despite the run to the Finals, the lack of offensive push from the back was an issue all playoff, especially against VGK and TB. So that needs to be fixed regardless.

 

(Personally, I worry that the aging out of Weber will continue to worsen; at some point, perhaps as early as next playoff, he will not be able to do recover that extra gear in the crunch. That is another ticking time-bomb given the way the D is constructed). 

 

We need another active off-season from our GM.

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8 hours ago, Toronthab said:

Dumping Gally would be a bad move. We don't have another player who can supply the organ for a heart transplant. He had a busted thumb and still played like the warrior he is. Besides. He's Irish! 


yeah, but he is better suited to a bottom six role.

his offensive upside in so limited and is not a real top six forward anymore.

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8 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

A better d-core is the issue, and although I agree the Habs need better puck moving dmen I believe the bigger issue was lack of dmen that can shoot.   i.e. their dmen had a ton of great scoring chances but the end result was not enough goals.  

 

They need more dmen that have Gustafssons skill of knowing when to do a 1 timer, slapshot or wrist shot.  Other than Gustafsson I believe the only other 2 dmen that attempted a wrist shot were Weber and Romy, and they both scored.  

Huh, no this is wrong.

Gus was never a threat to shoot let alone of any variety as mentioned.

Chiarot scored on a wrister as well so that contradicts you ur point as well.

Gus was a defensive liability and brought nothing offensive in the finals. More d like him and the team doesn’t make the playoffs.

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A lot of complaining about the d on this team but the biggest issue is a lack of offensive creativity and fire power. The forward group is missing the high end skill as it has for years.

They do not generate enough offensive zone time, sustained pressure to wear out opposing d, they do not create off the rush with any consistency and are impotent at scoring.

Better forwards will make the d look a lot better.

Danualt/Gallagher/Lehks are all good players, but not too 6 forwards. 
Caufield was rushed into the top 6 due to a lack of options, on most teams he would have been eased into the lineup with more support.

To expect him and Suzuki to carry to load was never a recipe for success at this point in the it career. Same thing for Corey Perry, he cannot be a centre piece of the offense but there he was on every PP and late in games when goals were needed.

we have about 4 of a top 6:

Suzuki, Toffoli, Caufield and Anderson. 
Gally, Danualt, should be on a third line shut down role with Lehks.

Too many bottom six players in Byro, Evans, Armia, Staal, Perry....

Toffolli’s feet were never moving the whole series, if he was that injured he should not have been playing as he was useless.

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8 hours ago, PMAC said:

Doesn’t matter. I hate them even more now. As per Chris Joshson: 

Nikita Kucherov: "The fans in Montreal acted like they won the Stanley Cup last game. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Their final was last round."

Classless jackass!

I don’t think there is anything not true in what he said. Price l’s reaction the job is not done. The rest of the team a text like they had one the cup. We’ve been losing for so long, and so many fans haven’t seen a cup run, going to an unexpected cup run, was like a win. I know I wasn’t as devestated by this cup loss as I was in 89’. We were one of the top teams in the league than. This year we exceeded all expectations.

 

having said that, Tampa acted like they had one the cup in the regular season a couple of years ago. They learned to win. We need to do that as well. Tampa fans on the other hand, are a bunch of fait weather bums.

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3 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Huh, no this is wrong.

Gus was never a threat to shoot let alone of any variety as mentioned.

Chiarot scored on a wrister as well so that contradicts you ur point as well.

Gus was a defensive liability and brought nothing offensive in the finals. More d like him and the team doesn’t make the playoffs.

 

I continue to point out that the PP suddenly looked better when Gusty was on it, and suddenly reverted to being inert and useless when he was taken off. 

 

That does not mean he is a good defenceman; I agree that he is a liability overall. But ignoring his puck-moving skills is silly. 

 

The point is, we need a guy with something like his offensive acumen, but who is not a complete disaster in every other facet of the game. We also do not need yet another immobile D-man like Weber who is all shot and nothing else on the PP. We need puck-movers and distributors, a creative d-man who can make things happen and keep the other team off-balance, especially on the PP.

 

9 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:


yeah, but he is better suited to a bottom six role.

his offensive upside in so limited and is not a real top six forward anymore.

 

14 goals in 35 games is a 32-goal season, pro-rated over 82. He still has top-6 chops despite a horrible playoff. The problem is that his durability was always likely to be limited over the long haul. He has been broken and useless for two playoffs now. If he can’t hold up, then it doesn’t matter how good he still is when healthy. 

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2 hours ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

I can't ever remember hearing anything from the losing team after the last game, outside of when a losing player is awarded the Conn Smythe, i.e. J.S. Giguere. And even then I don't think he stuck around for media on NBC. 

 

 

Sure, if they can sign Dougie Hamilton, Tyson Barrie, Zach Hyman, and Kyle Palmieri.

 

 

Why would NBC care about the Leafs? My gosh the persecution complex this fan base has.

Referring to Sportsnet.  I didn’t watch the NBC coverage.

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Anyone who understands the “concern” that making the playoffs next year will

be “more difficult than this year” would be completely overlooking the experience and hunger this team gained by making the Stanley Cup Final.

 

Regardless of whether or not it was the playoffs versus the regular season, it is still a team that gained a lot through this experience.

 

Of course, the same could be said about Dallas this year, but a couple of our biggest performers are our youngest players on the team. We have already improved next year with Caufield in the lineup. In addition, the Stars lost a few of their players after last year, with Perry being an obvious name to come to mind. 
 

For that reason, I conceed that a lot will depend on which players we keep/add to the squad but I do not see any reason for negative thoughts in that area, prior to it happening. There have been poor off seasons in the past under this regime, but there have also been very solid off seasons as well, including last year’s.

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9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

To me, the single biggest key to reaching the playoffs again will be Allen or an Allen substitute. If we expect Price to carry us for 82 games we are fools, plain and simple. 

I agree with this. And I think even Bergevin agrees.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that we won't lose Allen to Seattle. They will have quite a few goalie options, and my find one of our skaters (combined with a goalie from another team) to be a better route. Or Bergevin may dangle a draft pick to get Seattle to pick a specific player -- they do need to build their prospect base as well.

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... we have Carey Price, we simply are a contender from here on out ... but it’s not like that single move would change us from a bubble team to a cup contender ...

And therein rests my concern ... the Habs remains a bubble team ... Carey was very good these playoffs and last post-season ... but in between he was 42nd in Sv% amongst goalies with at least 15 games last season (not the perfect goalie stat but generally reflective of play) ... he was 32nd the year before ... Habs can't plan the next season's roster on the assumption that Price will repeat his post season performances.

 

57 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... Sure, he can have a poor season and this will change things but with him between the pipes there is always hope for a strong run ...

Personally, I want more than hope when it comes to playoffs ... the team proved it was built for the playoffs, but what took them to the Cup Final will not (IMO) automatically translate to regular season success

 

1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... it’s easy to say that the Habs will miss the playoffs next year just like Dallas did this year, but it’s too negative to say that “the fear is that our GM thinks we are a cup contender” immediately after having reached the Stanley Cup final ... It’s akin to saying the run was a fluke, which it was not ...

Don't think anyone is saying the Habs will miss the playoffs ... and the Habs certainly earned their way to the Final ... but they also could have been out in five against Toronto if Price wasn't a Frackin' wall in that O/T and Galchenyuk hadn't forgotten he wasn't a Hab anymore ... their success was hard fought and well-earned, but making the Cup Final doesn't change that they are (as you said) a bubble team ... it may seem cold, but the focus is now next season ... it is not meant in any way to denigrate what was accomplished ... but the Habs (and all the other teams) now have 10 days to finalize their expansion draft protection lists (including taking advantage of any opportunities with teams that want to get picks/prospects rather than losing then to Seattle for nothing) and then 4 days to then make any deals with Seattle ... but that is concurrent with both final preparations for the NHL draft two days after the Kraken draft and Free Agency four days after the NHL draft ... being prepared to make the playoffs next season may depend largely on what happens in the next 3-4 weeks.

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9 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

A better d-core is the issue, and although I agree the Habs need better puck moving dmen I believe the bigger issue was lack of dmen that can shoot.   i.e. their dmen had a ton of great scoring chances but the end result was not enough goals.  

 

They need more dmen that have Gustafssons skill of knowing when to do a 1 timer, slapshot or wrist shot.  Other than Gustafsson I believe the only other 2 dmen that attempted a wrist shot were Weber and Romy, and they both scored.  

100% agree


that is why I was floating the ideas of developing Romanov into that type of player

 

I’ve had it with puck moving defensemen with no finish . Habs do not have a play hinging on that capability and most times when someone like Petry brings the puck into the Ozone the others seem to be scrambling to react

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6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

100% agree


that is why I was floating the ideas of developing Romanov into that type of player

 

I’ve had it with puck moving defensemen with no finish . Habs do not have a play hinging on that capability and most times when someone like Petry brings the puck into the Ozone the others seem to be scrambling to react

Offer sheet to Makar.  $10.5m to $11m/7 yrs.  

To make sure you have room:

1-expose Weber - I think his value is high as it’s going to get

2-trade Gallagher and start picking up picks you will lose from the offer sheet

3. Trade for Dunn - should be cheap 

 

If you get Makar, D for next year:

Makar, Petry, Edumundaon, Romanov, Chairot, Kulak, with potential of a another prospect progressing 

 

 

 

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