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2021-22 NHL Discussion Thread


tomh009
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6 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Dvorak 52.7%

Perreault 51.0%

Evans 47.8%

Suzuki 46.3%

Paquette 24.1% (!)


So, the issue is Suzuki as he and Dvorak are going to take 99% of key draws. Dvorak is coming as advertised and performing in this area. If Suzuki improves to 50% they are decent overall. Evans, Pacquette, Perrault will only take non essential draws for most part, change on fly after another C takes draw.

 

off the board idea:

I’ve noticed Anderson do well on a handful of draws over past two season-he’s fast, big body and I wonder how he’d do as a centreman if given time/direction.  Would ease up logjam of wingers, give Habs first big centre who can move in a long time, excluding Bambi KK.

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48 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

... off the board idea:

I’ve noticed Anderson do well on a handful of draws over past two season-he’s fast, big body and I wonder how he’d do as a centreman if given time/direction.  Would ease up logjam of wingers, give Habs first big centre who can move in a long time, excluding Bambi KK.

 

Anderson does not have to play centre to take faceoffs ... I've long-wondered why teams don't have face-off competitions to determine which players are the best ... in certain circumstances a team could even use a defenceman if it turns out he is the best option on the ice.

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On 11/2/2021 at 12:12 PM, dlbalr said:

 

Walsh takes every opportunity he can think of to complain about Bettman.  The bias is so extreme that I can't take anything he says seriously - there may be owners that are unhappy but I'll wait to hear it from someone that doesn't openly despise Bettman before actually believing it.

 

Thats true, but he's also not wrong in that was a horrible presser and that Bettman has handled this situation in a disgraceful way. 

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6 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

Tuch, Krebs, a top-10 protected 1st and a 3rd is a far cry from what Buffalo was asking.

Still a good haul for a player who might be damaged goods.  Possibly two future top6 C and the pics.

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2 hours ago, titanfan said:

so basically - Dvorak, Poehling and the picks???

I think more comparable would be Anderson, Romanov and picks.  Montreal doesn’t really have a Krebs comparable as I believe Caufield has more value than Krebs.

 

I think what’s being lost here is the 1st is top-10 protected, so Buffalo isn’t even getting a high 1st.  That pick should be expected 20+.  Which isn’t a high draft pick at all.

 

The ask was a top-6 forward, A prospect, B prospect and 2 unprotected 1st.

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2 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

I think more comparable would be Anderson, Romanov and picks.  Montreal doesn’t really have a Krebs comparable as I believe Caufield has more value than Krebs.

 

I think what’s being lost here is the 1st is top-10 protected, so Buffalo isn’t even getting a high 1st.  That pick should be expected 20+.  Which isn’t a high draft pick at all.

 

The ask was a top-6 forward, A prospect, B prospect and 2 unprotected 1st.

Difficult for Buffalo to hang tough when the market was limited to teams that had the necessary assets AND were willing to allow Eichel his surgery of choice, lest he just continue to sit (the NHL team may get to approve/choose the type of surgery but doubt they can force the player to have it) ... add in the possibility of a grievance challenging whether the scope of the CBA provision extends as far as how a player's body gets cut into ... IMO Sabres had less clout than presumed.

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3 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

I think more comparable would be Anderson, Romanov and picks.  Montreal doesn’t really have a Krebs comparable as I believe Caufield has more value than Krebs.

 

Caufield would be the comparable to Krebs - two picks apart in the same draft class, Caufield has a bit more NHL success but Krebs plays the premium position.  Value wise, they're close.  Anderson, Caufield, and the picks would be the comparable before factoring in the in-division premium that likely would have been charged.

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4 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

I think more comparable would be Anderson, Romanov and picks.  Montreal doesn’t really have a Krebs comparable as I believe Caufield has more value than Krebs.

 

I think what’s being lost here is the 1st is top-10 protected, so Buffalo isn’t even getting a high 1st.  That pick should be expected 20+.  Which isn’t a high draft pick at all.

 

The ask was a top-6 forward, A prospect, B prospect and 2 unprotected 1st.

Even at that, i would have pulled the trigger on that trade in a heartbeat if I was Marc Bergevin.

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I'd be pissed if I was a Sabres fan with that return.  They have an all-time tank season to get Eichel, can't build around him, and end up with a few decent but not great pieces to show for it.  There must have been better offers on the table during the summer.

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16 minutes ago, Neech said:

I'd be pissed if I was a Sabres fan with that return.  They have an all-time tank season to get Eichel, can't build around him, and end up with a few decent but not great pieces to show for it.  There must have been better offers on the table during the summer.

Between Eichel's $10M AAV and his insistence on an "unconventional for a NHL player" surgery I'm not certain that as many clubs as expected entered into the bidding ... Kevyn Adams (Sabres GM) has said that said that Kevin Weekes' report that Calgary offered Matthew Tkachuk was false ... none of which means Sabres fans have to be happy with the return .

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With that return, if I were the Sabres, I would of allowed his surgery, got him back on the ice and traded him then.  If that even would of been an option.  Similar to what Tampa did with Drouin.

 

Eichel’s value was at an all-time low right now.  I understand Sabres fan being disappointed with the return, but they were expecting a healthy Eichel with no trade pressure, type of return.  This was as far from that as possible.

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1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

With that return, if I were the Sabres, I would of allowed his surgery, got him back on the ice and traded him then.  If that even would of been an option.  Similar to what Tampa did with Drouin.

 

Eichel’s value was at an all-time low right now.  I understand Sabres fan being disappointed with the return, but they were expecting a healthy Eichel with no trade pressure, type of return.  This was as far from that as possible.

We should have been in on him. Given the crap team we have, I would have rolled the dice, as long as Suzuki and Caufield were excluded from the gamble.  

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18 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We should have been in on him. Given the crap team we have, I would have rolled the dice, as long as Suzuki and Caufield were excluded from the gamble.  

Don't disagree ... but doubt a deal could be made without one of those two being included ... 

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38 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Don't disagree ... but doubt a deal could be made without one of those two being included ... 

The equivalent trade from Montreal would of had Caufield. I’m not sure that gamble would of been worth it.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We should have been in on him. Given the crap team we have, I would have rolled the dice, as long as Suzuki and Caufield were excluded from the gamble.  

 

But the return they got basically cemented the fact that one of them - likely Caufield - would have been in there.  Krebs and Caufield are of very similar value.  Buffalo wanted Seth Jarvis from Carolina and his value is about the same as Caufield's.  I'm pretty confident that Caufield would have had to have been part of the trade as a result and as the centrepiece of the swap.  Buffalo wasn't going to take a collection of veterans on poor-value contracts which is the move I'm sure you were hoping to see the Habs make here.

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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Don't disagree ... but doubt a deal could be made without one of those two being included ... 

Caufield, Anderson and our other 1st in 2022? 

 

that would sink the Habs for years if Eichel never plays again.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

But the return they got basically cemented the fact that one of them - likely Caufield - would have been in there.  Krebs and Caufield are of very similar value.  Buffalo wanted Seth Jarvis from Carolina and his value is about the same as Caufield's.  I'm pretty confident that Caufield would have had to have been part of the trade as a result and as the centrepiece of the swap.  Buffalo wasn't going to take a collection of veterans on poor-value contracts which is the move I'm sure you were hoping to see the Habs make here.

Considering that Buffalo is like Alcatraz for most players, if think they’d be looking to add a players that tick the following boxes:

- term on contracts - that the Sabres control

- help at centre

-help in D

-players that could be part of a core for the next 4-5 years

-skill and veteran leadership 

-also keep in mind they had to make a trade just to get to floor

 

- I think giving them two prospects in the juniors, a non lottery first rounder (what they get from vegas)

-Dvorak- to address a need at centre- I’ve been hearing how great he is coveted and how great his contract is 

-Gallagher- need leadership- I think he is washed up, or pretty close to it, but he seems to still be held in reverence  other option id given up is Anderson 

-Romanov- has no t looked good, but again, is still someone others hood in high regardS what be a good complement to a guy like Dahlin, if he progresses 

 

I look at what they got from vegas, and other than Tuch, they didn’t get in any sure thing to sell to their Fanbase. 
 

if they let him get his surgery back in July and had him come back healthy, they could have got a lot more.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

if they let him get his surgery back in July and had him come back healthy, they could have got a lot more.

Yes.

 

Of course, if the surgery were unsuccessful, he would have been untradeable and would have been on Buffalo's LTIR for years to come, with nothing at all in return.

 

They decided not to risk that. I respect the choice, we'll have a better idea of whether it was a good decision once Vegas allows Eichel to have the surgery and the results become clear.

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20 hours ago, Neech said:

I'd be pissed if I was a Sabres fan with that return.  They have an all-time tank season to get Eichel, can't build around him, and end up with a few decent but not great pieces to show for it.  There must have been better offers on the table during the summer.

 

i wouldn't be so sure that there were better offers.  This isn't Joe Thornton where GMs complained to the media that they didnt know he was available. Everyone knew he was there and had the chance to make an offer

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Considering that Buffalo is like Alcatraz for most players, if think they’d be looking to add a players that tick the following boxes:

- term on contracts - that the Sabres control

- help at centre

-help in D

-players that could be part of a core for the next 4-5 years

-skill and veteran leadership 

-also keep in mind they had to make a trade just to get to floor

 

- I think giving them two prospects in the juniors, a non lottery first rounder (what they get from vegas)

-Dvorak- to address a need at centre- I’ve been hearing how great he is coveted and how great his contract is 

-Gallagher- need leadership- I think he is washed up, or pretty close to it, but he seems to still be held in reverence  other option id given up is Anderson 

-Romanov- has no t looked good, but again, is still someone others hood in high regardS what be a good complement to a guy like Dahlin, if he progresses 

 

I look at what they got from vegas, and other than Tuch, they didn’t get in any sure thing to sell to their Fanbase. 
 

if they let him get his surgery back in July and had him come back healthy, they could have got a lot more.

 

I look at what you proposed and what Buffalo got and if I were them, I'd have taken the Vegas package over what you have.  They want team control on young players, not veterans that are starting their decline and are on negative-value contracts.  Gallagher hurts that return.  Anderson would be more valuable to them so that covers Tuch's inclusion as has been established already.

 

Dvorak is a nice secondary piece but something centred around him and Romanov as the headliners is a pretty lousy return for Buffalo.  If they're not sold on Dvorak being a 2C or Romanov being a top-four D, they're taking role players over someone they believe to be a top-six centre with seven years of control in Krebs.  Let me ask you this - would you take players equivalent to Dvorak and Romanov in a trade for Caufield?  If the answer is no, you can't say Buffalo should have done exactly that to move their franchise player to a division rival.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

I look at what you proposed and what Buffalo got and if I were them, I'd have taken the Vegas package over what you have.  They want team control on young players, not veterans that are starting their decline and are on negative-value contracts.  Gallagher hurts that return.  Anderson would be more valuable to them so that covers Tuch's inclusion as has been established already.

 

Dvorak is a nice secondary piece but something centred around him and Romanov as the headliners is a pretty lousy return for Buffalo.  If they're not sold on Dvorak being a 2C or Romanov being a top-four D, they're taking role players over someone they believe to be a top-six centre with seven years of control in Krebs.  Let me ask you this - would you take players equivalent to Dvorak and Romanov in a trade for Caufield?  If the answer is no, you can't say Buffalo should have done exactly that to move their franchise player to a division rival.

Is Krebs a sure thing?  If we were talking October 2020, I’d include Caufield. I’m more confident he will be elite now - no guarantees still. Right now Krebs may be Lars Eller. I’m not sold on Dvorak, but everyone on this site seemed to live the trade and consider him a second line centre. I also said two other prospects and a first. That could be Guhle - who I really like. But, I wouldn’t give up more than that for a guy with health uncertainty. I really think the move is a roll the dice fir both sides. Sabres have a lot of young players the are  hoping will be top players. They need some players that still have 4-5 years of solid production ahead of them.

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