2023-24 NHL discussion thread

[DON]

Quinn Hughes 12points in last 4 games, not too bad.

(lil brother Luke 7points in 11 games as a rookie d-man)

 

[alfredoh2009]

I saw this post about the Rangers, and made me curious about Gorton's record as GM. He was a terrible at drafting:

 

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Rangers&BeginDate=2015-06-01&EndDate=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&submit=Search&start=0

 

One of the most aggravating things about scouting is how people, in hindsight, criticize the selection of prospects who were consensus picks. It's easy to say NYR blew it by picking Lafreniere and Kakko today...but no one critiqued it at the time. This from Bob McKenzie in 2019: pic.twitter.com/jL1fargU20

— Grant McCagg (@grantmccagg) November 7, 2023

 

[tomh009]

Reading 37 pages of transactions? Surely you jest.

 

Much easier to see the picks here:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2019e.html

etc

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Reading 37 pages of transactions? Surely you jest.

 

Much easier to see the picks here:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2019e.html

etc

about 20 pages. He got the boot on page 25

 

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I saw this post about the Rangers, and made me curious about Gorton's record as GM. He was a terrible at drafting:

 

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Rangers&BeginDate=2015-06-01&EndDate=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&submit=Search&start=0

 

 

The example McCagg cites is that Gorton/Rangers drafted the consensus #2 overall prospect at #2.

[DON]

Go Sens, beat those Leafs.

[Sir_Boagalott]

This could be bad in Edmonton - they might get hit with 10 cm of Oilers jerseys tonight:

 

There are plenty of games still to be played but it is crazy how bad they are doing so far.  

 

 

[DON]

Canucks given up 24g in 12 games

Leafs have given up 48 in 13.

 

Makes one chuckle.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Canucks given up 24g in 12 games

Leafs have given up 48 in 13.

 

Makes one chuckle.

 

Shockingly, Ryan Reeves has not elevated them to being an unstoppable powerhouse 🙄

 

I am pleased to say I put $20 on the Canucks to make the playoffs this season. I should have bet more. I found it obvious that the combination of Tocchet, ultra-elite talent like Hughes, a healthy Demko, Hronek, and depth improvements would make them a much better team. Of course, i had now idea they’d rip it up like they’re doing now (!). Still, I was happy to fleece perennially pessimistic Canucks fans.

[hab29RETIRED]

9 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

This could be bad in Edmonton - they might get hit with 10 cm of Oilers jerseys tonight:

 

There are plenty of games still to be played but it is crazy how bad they are doing so far.  

 

 

Thants what happens when you don’t have legit goaltending, or a legit D!

 

Nurse is NOT a $9m dman, and IMO is not even a legit top pairing dman. Imagine how much worse they would be if they didn’t get Ekholm - one of the few good deals Holland did make. Holland is still operating like it’s 2001. There is also reports that he is in on Patrick Kane.🙄

[alfredoh2009]

I am glad to read something positive on Slaf.

 

Slafkovsky's relative expected goals % is 83rd in the NHL. His CORSI is above 50%. He is 65th overall in hits, and he has had only two defensive zone giveaways. Not only is he not hurting his team, he is one of the most effective forwards on the Habs. Great to see him adjusting.

— Grant McCagg (@grantmccagg) November 9, 2023

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Thants what happens when you don’t have legit goaltending, or a legit D!

 

Nurse is NOT a $9m dman, and IMO is not even a legit top pairing dman. Imagine how much worse they would be if they didn’t get Ekholm - one of the few good deals Holland did make. Holland is still operating like it’s 2001. There is also reports that he is in on Patrick Kane.🙄

 

The thing about Jack Campbell is, the day he was signed, I heard a goaltending expert - I think it was Kevin Woodley - denounce this as a crazy signing based on Campbell's underlying advanced stats. And I was like, WTF? Who signs guys to long-term deals irrespective of their advanced stats in today's NHL?

 

Lo and behold, the guy is a boat anchor. There is no cure for stupidity. 

 

Interesting thing about Holland, he has this long history of struggling to find G. First he foisted that POS Osgood on a powerhouse Wings team; fortunately for them, they were so good they could overcome very average netminding and still win some Cups. Then he went for the obvious, no-brainer glam signings (Joseph, who crapped out, and Hasek). Now he has floundered spectacularly in EDM. Weird.

 

While I agree that EDM's D is not top-shelf, it was good enough to make them an elite team last season, so I don't think that's the explanation. They changed their defensive system this year - to my mind, that, plus terrible G, is the likeliest explanation.

 

But there's no substitute for netminding. If you can't get the saves, your team is terrible by default. Look at the Canucks and the difference Demko has made - having a G who can stop the puck is a major factor moving them from outhouse to penthouse in one season.

 

I think we should be trying to get them to take Allen in return for a young FW, but the rumours I hear involve Binnington.  

 

 

[Plutarch]

37 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The thing about Jack Campbell is, the day he was signed, I heard a goaltending expert - I think it was Kevin Woodley - denounce this as a crazy signing based on Campbell's underlying advanced stats. And I was like, WTF? Who signs guys to long-term deals irrespective of their advanced stats in today's NHL?

 

Lo and behold, the guy is a boat anchor. There is no cure for stupidity. 

 

Interesting thing about Holland, he has this long history of struggling to find G. First he foisted that POS Osgood on a powerhouse Wings team; fortunately for them, they were so good they could overcome very average netminding and still win some Cups. Then he went for the obvious, no-brainer glam signings (Joseph, who crapped out, and Hasek). Now he has floundered spectacularly in EDM. Weird.

 

While I agree that EDM's D is not top-shelf, it was good enough to make them an elite team last season, so I don't think that's the explanation. They changed their defensive system this year - to my mind, that, plus terrible G, is the likeliest explanation.

 

But there's no substitute for netminding. If you can't get the saves, your team is terrible by default. Look at the Canucks and the difference Demko has made - having a G who can stop the puck is a major factor moving them from outhouse to penthouse in one season.

 

I think we should be trying to get them to take Allen in return for a young FW, but the rumours I hear involve Binnington.  

 

 

I can't believe Edmonton would trade for a 6M binnington. Guys a wacko. I feel they'd be better off doing Allen for cheaper.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Plutarch said:

I can't believe Edmonton would trade for a 6M binnington. Guys a wacko. I feel they'd be better off doing Allen for cheaper.

St Louis might be willing to take back Campbell as part of the deal, if Oilers make the deal "sweet" enough ... same term, $1M less AAV.

[JoeLassister]

Don't know where to post this, but I have a question for people in here who follow the prospects.

 

Aatos Koivu is eligible for next year's draft.

 

Where does he stand ?

[GHT120]

24 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Don't know where to post this, but I have a question for people in here who follow the prospects.

 

Aatos Koivu is eligible for next year's draft.

 

Where does he stand ?

 

He is still slight of build (5'11", 165 lbs) but that is significantly heavier than when I last looked ... for now, he might be worth a late round flyer.

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am glad to read something positive on Slaf.

 

 

 

Points are not the only metric to judge a hockey player by.

 

I don't think anyone here mentioned this but I loved what I saw from Slaf in that 1 game.  i.e. I laughed so hard when he was accosting and face washing that guy. I forget who they were playing and I wasn't sure who the player was but I imagine it was a Euro player that Slaf played against in Jr or Worlds etc.  I definitely got the impression that he knew him and realized the guy was a pacifist and wouldn't respond.  ex:  "I'm much larger than you and you're not tough so you wont do anything so I'm going to yank you around and wash your face for you - you know, just because".   The best part of that was from the look on Slafs face he was enjoying tormenting and bullying the smaller player.  That was an interesting side of Slaf to see him behave like that.  

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Points are not the only metric to judge a hockey player by.

 

I don't think anyone here mentioned this but I loved what I saw from Slaf in that 1 game.  i.e. I laughed so hard when he was accosting and face washing that guy. I forget who they were playing and I wasn't sure who the player was but I imagine it was a Euro player that Slaf played against in Jr or Worlds etc.  I definitely got the impression that he knew him and realized the guy was a pacifist and wouldn't respond.  ex:  "I'm much larger than you and you're not tough so you wont do anything so I'm going to yank you around and wash your face for you - you know, just because".   The best part of that was from the look on Slafs face he was enjoying tormenting and bullying the smaller player.  That was an interesting side of Slaf to see him behave like that.  

he is such a brown bear cub, how cute !

[dlbalr]

5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

St Louis might be willing to take back Campbell as part of the deal, if Oilers make the deal "sweet" enough ... same term, $1M less AAV.

 

They'd have to in order to make the money work.  Odd as it seems, it's probably easier for Edmonton to do a deal like that than one for Allen where the Habs probably wouldn't want a goalie back and the Oilers don't have many players within Allen's price range (and they have to get pretty close to matching it with their cap).

[TurdBurglar]

Something is going to happen soon.  They just lost to SJ in regulation to claim sole position of last.  Not a good look for a cup favorite at the start of the season.

 

I doubt Woodcroft is the head coach in 24 hours.  There has to be a goalie move somewhere in the next week or they're writing off this season.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

6 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Something is going to happen soon.  They just lost to SJ in regulation to claim sole position of last.  Not a good look for a cup favorite at the start of the season.

 

I doubt Woodcroft is the head coach in 24 hours.  There has to be a goalie move somewhere in the next week or they're writing off this season.

I expect Woodcroft fired today and If I owned the Oilers Holland would be fired with him. 
 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I expect Woodcroft fired today and If I owned the Oilers Holland would be fired with him. 
 

 

He should be the one fired. Goaltending is in him. Doesn’t make sense to fire the coach and than get a new GM come in at the end of the year and pick another coach.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He should be the one fired. Goaltending is in him. Doesn’t make sense to fire the coach and than get a new GM come in at the end of the year and pick another coach.

 

The concern is - what if Woodcroft is part of the problem? Is it ONLY goaltending, or are there deeper issues of system, player fatigue with the coach’s message, etc.? If the latter, then you’re stuck with him and the team continues to spiral. (Not unlike the Habs firing Bergevin and then being forced to fire DD owing to the latter’s incompetence). 

[hab29RETIRED]

5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The concern is - what if Woodcroft is part of the problem? Is it ONLY goaltending, or are there deeper issues of system, player fatigue with the coach’s message, etc.? If the latter, then you’re stuck with him and the team continues to spiral. (Not unlike the Habs firing Bergevin and then being forced to fire DD owing to the latter’s incompetence). 

Well last night the oilers out shot SJS badly (I think it was 42-19), and lost 3-2. That sounds like a goaltending issue. When that continues to happen it’s going to impact the confidence of the team.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

30 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well last night the oilers out shot SJS badly (I think it was 42-19), and lost 3-2. That sounds like a goaltending issue. When that continues to happen it’s going to impact the confidence of the team.

No doubt goaltending is a big part of the problem but when a high powered offence can only score 2 goals against a team like San Jose then you certainly have other problems. I think Woodcraft likely has to go. Getting rid of Holland solves nothing in the short term. A new GM comes in with no cap space to do anything.