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Fire Bergevin


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4 hours ago, Chris said:

Yes, fire him when the season is over

 

for the same reasons i mentioned, 

 

It's Price 9 years ago and it's Price now. hasn;t done much to improve the rest of the team

 

Still cant be positive.

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I was positive in the other thread, 

 

If you think MB is anything but an average GM, that's your opinion. 

 

I have said numerous times that if you want a bubble team that Price can carry you threw a round MB is your guy. I have higher expectations. We will see what they do against the Jets. 

 

It's one round, 12 more wins to go, we will see how many they get

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When sports were a HUGLY important part of my life (10-21) the Habs won 8 Cups in those 12 seasons ... my standard then was THE CUP ... reality entered my life as the years passed and my standard is now serious Cup contention.

 

Downing the LAFFS is great (I cheer against TO teams no matter who they play) ... I expect the dJets to have more backbone than the leafs displayed ... should be a good series ... but that is the "micro-view" (i.e., what is happening now") ... in the "macro-view" I retain concerns ... the Habs only made the playoffs last year because as a 24th place team they pulled an upset in a "TV wants more games" Covid Play-in, and were again the "worst" team to make the playoffs this season ... to be a serious Cup contender the habs have to be more than a bubble team ... regardless of what happens in the next few weeks, this summer is critical to getting off that bubble ... regardless of who is the GM.

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16 minutes ago, Chris said:

I was positive in the other thread, 

 

If you think MB is anything but an average GM, that's your opinion. 

 

I have said numerous times that if you want a bubble team that Price can carry you threw a round MB is your guy. I have higher expectations. We will see what they do against the Jets. 

 

It's one round, 12 more wins to go, we will see how many they get

 

MB is ABOVE average. I'll post the chart that I've share before once the season is done, the regular season success and winning percentage in the playoffs during his tenure are BETTER than average

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17 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

When sports were a HUGLY important part of my life (10-21) the Habs won 8 Cups in those 12 seasons ... my standard then was THE CUP ... reality entered my life as the years passed and my standard is now serious Cup contention.

 

Downing the LAFFS is great (I cheer against TO teams no matter who they play) ... I expect the dJets to have more backbone than the leafs displayed ... should be a good series ... but that is the "micro-view" (i.e., what is happening now") ... in the "macro-view" I retain concerns ... the Habs only made the playoffs last year because as a 24th place team they pulled an upset in a "TV wants more games" Covid Play-in, and were again the "worst" team to make the playoffs this season ... to be a serious Cup contender the habs have to be more than a bubble team ... regardless of what happens in the next few weeks, this summer is critical to getting off that bubble ... regardless of who is the GM.

The micro view is we win against a team that we all despise, despite them having more elite talent. We need to temper that enthusiasm that were missing Tavares.  Inn93’ the Islanders were missing Turgeon, but with the guys we had on the blueline - Schneider and Desjardins as anchors, up front - Muller, Bellows, Damphousse, carbo, Courtnall,  an emerging Leclair (like Caufield), and of course Roy, I felt good. This year Ben without Tavares, I was worried.

in the micro view price may gets us on he semififinals.

 

in the Macro view our D is still a tire fire. And we keep adding the same type of lumbering big dmen. That has to change.

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1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

MB is ABOVE average. I'll post the chart that I've share before once the season is done, the regular season success and winning percentage in the playoffs during his tenure are BETTER than average

So are bubble playoff teams ... my objective would be for the Habs to be Pens/Caps/Bruins-good ... in the last 16 seasons the Pens have been a 100 points or better 12 times, 3 times in the 90s and had an 86 point season ... Caps and BBs are 9 and 5 in the last 14 seasons. ... I would even take Blues good (5 and 5) ... those teams start the year with the Cup as their goal because making the playoffs is essentially a foregone conclusion

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The micro view is we win against a team that we all despise, despite them having more elite talent. We need to temper that enthusiasm that were missing Tavares.  Inn93’ the Islanders were missing Turgeon, but with the guys we had on the blueline - Schneider and Desjardins as anchors, up front - Muller, Bellows, Damphousse, carbo, Courtnall,  an emerging Leclair (like Caufield), and of course Roy, I felt good. This year Ben without Tavares, I was worried.

in the micro view price may gets us on he semififinals.

 

in the Macro view our D is still a tire fire. And we keep adding the same type of lumbering big dmen. That has to change.

 

Yep. The argument that we should keep Bergevin because we scored a huge upset off a team that was 18 points better than us in the regular season is problematic. It overlooks the whole question of why this was an upset in the first place. WE should be the team that is favoured going into series. That’s what happens when you have a top-end squad, and Bergevin’s job is to build such a squad.

 

That being said: one idea I’ve been floating all season is that this team is like the 2012/2014 LA Kings - mediocre during the season but built for the playoffs. It is too soon to tell whether this is truly the case. But it cannot be wholly ruled out.

 

Anyhow, if Bergevin goes into next season without having turned over every stone to add a puck-moving top-4 D-man, then he is an idiot, pure and simple, irrespective of what happens next series.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yep. The argument that we should keep Bergevin because we scored a huge upset off a team that was 18 points better than us in the regular season is problematic. It overlooks the whole question of why this was an upset in the first place. WE should be the team that is favoured going into series. That’s what happens when you have a top-end squad, and Bergevin’s job is to build such a squad.

Were they really 18 points better, though, all things being equal? We went through a big slump when we had a new coach, a compressed COVID schedule with no time to practice and a slew of injuries to key players. Without the COVID schedule compression I expect that the gap would have been substantially less than 18 points. (Hey, last years playoffs were invalid because COVID, this year's division was too easy due to COVID, I think we also need to consider the downside of COVID.)

 

The Leafs had the strongest team in the division, no doubt. But with a normal schedule, with time to rest and practise, I do expect that we could have been within 10 points of the Leafs. Which would have made this series win an upset, but maybe not a massive one.

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4 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Were they really 18 points better, though, all things being equal? We went through a big slump when we had a new coach, a compressed COVID schedule with no time to practice and a slew of injuries to key players. Without the COVID schedule compression I expect that the gap would have been substantially less than 18 points. (Hey, last years playoffs were invalid because COVID, this year's division was too easy due to COVID, I think we also need to consider the downside of COVID.)

 

The Leafs had the strongest team in the division, no doubt. But with a normal schedule, with time to rest and practise, I do expect that we could have been within 10 points of the Leafs. Which would have made this series win an upset, but maybe not a massive one.

We go threw that big slump every year at the same time of year.  Theirs a reason Bergevin gave price that big pat on the back of the neck..... He knows price saved his job.  In fact Bergevin has had his job this long because of price. Other wise he would of been fired a long time ago. 

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10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Were they really 18 points better, though, all things being equal? We went through a big slump when we had a new coach, a compressed COVID schedule with no time to practice and a slew of injuries to key players. Without the COVID schedule compression I expect that the gap would have been substantially less than 18 points. (Hey, last years playoffs were invalid because COVID, this year's division was too easy due to COVID, I think we also need to consider the downside of COVID.)

 

The Leafs had the strongest team in the division, no doubt. But with a normal schedule, with time to rest and practise, I do expect that we could have been within 10 points of the Leafs. Which would have made this series win an upset, but maybe not a massive one.

 

They absolutely WERE 18 points better than the Habs. In fact if we had played a full season the spread would likely have been wider IMHO.

 

Apart from the first 10-15 games, the Habs did not put together a single stretch where they looked convincing. Maybe that is because they are not really more than a bubble team. Maybe that is because they are a “built for the playoffs” team. But either way, they were not very good.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

They absolutely WERE 18 points better than the Habs. In fact if we had played a full season the spread would likely have been wider IMHO.

 

Apart from the first 10-15 games, the Habs did not put together a single stretch where they looked convincing. Maybe that is because they are not really more than a bubble team. Maybe that is because they are a “built for the playoffs” team. But either way, they were not very good.

 

I agree with Tom

 

You are discounting the effect of playing 4 games a week, every week for 8 weeks and what that does to the team in terms of fatigue.

 

It wasn't just the playoff effect that made the Habs look better in this series, it was also the effect of that 8 days off from the end of the season.

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On 6/1/2021 at 2:18 PM, Commandant said:

 

I agree with Tom

 

You are discounting the effect of playing 4 games a week, every week for 8 weeks and what that does to the team in terms of fatigue.

 

It wasn't just the playoff effect that made the Habs look better in this series, it was also the effect of that 8 days off from the end of the season.

 

I agree with Tom too.  

 

However, last year we got all excited about the playoffs, and it was sorta uncalled for really.  Sure, the Habs did beat Pitts in the 1st round, but that was actually the play-ins. 

 

That was incredible to see, but most of us sorta act like the Habs won a playoff round, and technically they didn't.  They won the preliminary round, so they could enter the Playoffs.  The Flyers beat them out in the 1st round.  Making the playoffs and being knocked out 1st round typically isn't something to celebrate.  

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4 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I agree with Tom too.  

 

However, last year we got all excited about the playoffs, and it was sorta uncalled for really.  Sure, the Habs did beat Pitts in the 1st round, but that was actually the play-ins. 

 

That was incredible to see, but most of us sorta act like the Habs won a playoff round, and technically they didn't.  They won the preliminary round, so they could enter the Playoffs.  The Flyers beat them out in the 1st round.  Making the playoffs and being knocked out 1st round typically isn't something to celebrate.  

Loosing 0-4 vs loosing 3-4 is not the same. Winning percentage in the playoffs is an indication of how competitive a team is

 

Habs have won their share of games in the playoffs 

I don’t remember the last time they were swept

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5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

We weren't celebrating losing to Philly

 

We were excited by how well Suzuki and Kotkaniemi looked in those two rounds.

That is right 100%

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I think it was Jeff O’Neil who said it, but Toronto built a regular season team and Montreal built a playoff team.

 

How many Presidents Trophy winners win the Cup? 
 

I don’t think there’s a GM out there that had a better off-season.

 

The Canadiens have a legit shot at being a final four team, contend for the cup. What more can you ask for? 

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32 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

I think it was Jeff O’Neil who said it, but Toronto built a regular season team and Montreal built a playoff team.

 

How many Presidents Trophy winners win the Cup? 
 

I don’t think there’s a GM out there that had a better off-season.

 

The Canadiens have a legit shot at being a final four team, contend for the cup. What more can you ask for? 

Wash, rinse, repeat?

 

The best franchises are "regular season" teams that can win in the playoffs ... or ... "playoff teams" that can securely make it into those playoffs.

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57 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

I think it was Jeff O’Neil who said it, but Toronto built a regular season team and Montreal built a playoff team.

 

How many Presidents Trophy winners win the Cup? 
 

I don’t think there’s a GM out there that had a better off-season.

 

The Canadiens have a legit shot at being a final four team, contend for the cup. What more can you ask for? 


Looking at the roster we have 9 forwards that are definitely must keep. Maybe 10.

 

On D, we are 5 must keep.

 

I would jettison Tatar and Drouin. Controversially, Weber.  That frees 18 mill to find better players. That’s MB’s job this summer.

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1 hour ago, zumpano21 said:


Looking at the roster we have 9 forwards that are definitely must keep. Maybe 10.

 

On D, we are 5 must keep.

 

I would jettison Tatar and Drouin. Controversially, Weber.  That frees 18 mill to find better players. That’s MB’s job this summer.

 

The problem on D is not the individual players. It’s the mix - much too heavily freighted in the direction of lumbering behemoths. What we need to do is add a top-4 puck-mover, preferably LD. The way the D is currently constructed, no one except Petry is a “must keep.”

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18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The problem on D is not the individual players. It’s the mix - much too heavily freighted in the direction of lumbering behemoths. What we need to do is add a top-4 puck-mover, preferably LD. The way the D is currently constructed, no one except Petry is a “must keep.”


I have been screaming for puck moving D but Ducharme may be onto something. Consider if we had 6 Dmen  all behemoths. 
 

These Dmen are only responsible for hitting, checking and boxing out the opposition. They are no longer primarily responsible for breakout. The wingers have been handling the breakout from inside the blue line. Wingers typically receive passes from Dmen inside the neutral zone. 
 

Ducharme made that change in game 5 and we haven’t lost since. Our issue is we only have 4 behemoths, what if we had 6 and played this style all season?

 

Ducharme made a genuine mistake in not starting KK, Caufield, Romanov and we were down 3-1. He makes adjustments that make the most out of our defence and boom. 
 

I am re-examining my opinion on Ducharme because he was smart enough to make corrections and it worked. 
 

Bergevin had one amazing offseason and the other years were crap. However, this team that he built is winning - maybe he got it right. 
 

Mute discussion really as both coach and gm earned big contracts after beating Toronto 
 

 

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7 minutes ago, zumpano21 said:


If Weber leaves, yes.

 

The analytics nerds are not high on him - so I’ve heard. Anyone have a good source?

 

Here are the Commandant's comments from the trade proposal thread:

 

On 6/2/2021 at 2:21 PM, Commandant said:

 

His defensive ability isn't that good. 

 

He backs off too much and has poor gap control.  He plays pretty passive on zone entries and collapses to the net which allows teams to get in the zone and cycle around a lot.  Honestly his defense looks like Weber, when Weber is struggling.  Not the good Weber who is very aggressive and physical, but the one who can get pinned in his zone and give up lots of zone time and scoring chances. 

 

Offensively he has typically put up points, but this season that cratered too.  Even when its worked though, there was some question as to how much it was Panarin inflating his totals before that.  I also think the real puckmover on his pairing and the guy who really makes things happen is Werenski.

 

I mean he's not a bad defenceman.. but he's really a 2nd pairing guy and ideally and not this franchise defenceman that he has been made out as.  And he's UFA in a year, and is already saying he wants to test free agency.  So maybe you can re-sign him, maybe you can't... but this is a guy who is looking for 9 million a season, and he has a reputation that says he should be in the Norris conversation and he's one of the top D in the league, and I'm sorry... he's a good top 4 guy, but he's not one of the best defencemen in hockey.

 

My Fear is that He's going to be overvalued as a trade asset and overvalued in his contract, and man, I want no part of that. 

 

Give me Zach Werenski in a heartbeat though.  That guy is great.

 

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5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Wash, rinse, repeat?

 

The best franchises are "regular season" teams that can win in the playoffs ... or ... "playoff teams" that can securely make it into those playoffs.


Wash Rinse Repeat?

 

The future is bright in Montreal. KK, Caufield, Suzuki.. Evans in the 7th. I don’t know if I’ve ever been as excited for the next few years as I am now. We’re contenders this year and should only be better next year. 

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