2023-24 NHL discussion thread

[GHT120]

4 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Definitely not suggesting this but the kind of return would be like Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Caufield, first. 

 

Just want to be the first respond to offer my belief/understanding that you are in no way suggesting that trade but only offering it as an example familiar to Habs fans of what sort of return that *** might *** be possible for the Leafs.

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, TurdBurglar said:

Nylander's NMC is a 10 team no trade list.

Until July 1st when his extension takes effect, then a full NMC ... we can't know whether there was perhaps a "handshake" agreement that the full NMC was immediate ... while legally unenforceable, it would be bad for the Leafs reputation in future negotiations with other players to "break" the agreement *** if *** it does exist. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

9 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Just want to be the first respond to offer my belief/understanding that you are in no way suggesting that trade but only offering it as an example familiar to Habs fans of what sort of return that *** might *** be possible for the Leafs.

Yes, exactly this. 
 

I don’t actually want that trade just trying to establish value 

[dlbalr]

17 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Until July 1st when his extension takes effect, then a full NMC ... we can't know whether there was perhaps a "handshake" agreement that the full NMC was immediate ... while legally unenforceable, it would be bad for the Leafs reputation in future negotiations with other players to "break" the agreement *** if *** it does exist. 

 

It actually is enforceable if it was written into the deal.  If an extension contains stronger trade protection and the player is of UFA age, the extension can overwrite the existing clause if both sides agree to it.  Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't and when they do, we rarely hear about it.

[hab29RETIRED]

49 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

As I said above, "I suspect it was all tongue-in-cheek ... I took it, and responded, in that sense."

 

 

Unless the Leafs have decided they are fully committed to re-signing Marner and confident they can do so, ***if*** he is willing to waive his NMC (it is 100% his choice) I expect the Leafs will recoup what they can by trading the pending UFA ... if, as you speculated, someone is willing to up the ante and can reach a sign&trade contract deal with Marner they might just get something closer to his market value.

 

 

Nylander is also on a NMC, so entirely his choice ... does he want to leave Toronto?   It also would not send a good message for future contract negotiations if the he is willing to re-sign to a max-term contract and then 4-5 months later the team asks him to leave.

Nylander was producing in the playoffs, not sure why they want to move him. Having said that, I think they can move him if they wanted too - doesn’t is NMC come into effect July 1?

 

Marner’s issue has been playoff production. So I can see them wanting to change the mix, given the repeated failure with this core. Leafs have zero leverage though. He can refuse any move, or pick where he is willing to go.

[GHT120]

22 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

It actually is enforceable if it was written into the deal.  If an extension contains stronger trade protection and the player is of UFA age, the extension can overwrite the existing clause if both sides agree to it.  Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't and when they do, we rarely hear about it.

Thx ... didn't want to assume ... guess it is one of the few things (maybe the only thing?) that can be modified in an existing contract.

[Commandant]

Marner is 100% the whipping boy and the one they should trade in the toronto media, amongst the majority leaf fans on twitter, reddit, and hfboards, and with most insiders.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Funny thing about Marner. He’s had dud playoffs, but he’s also had productive ones (2018, 2022, 2023).

 

			Regular Season						Playoffs
Season	Team	Lge	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012-13	St. Michael's Buzzers	OJHL	6	1	3	4	0		14	3	1	4	0
2013-14	London Knights	OHL	64	13	46	59	24	38	9	3	6	9	4
2014-15	London Knights	OHL	63	44	82	126	53	36	7	9	7	16	8
2015-16	London Knights	OHL	57	39	77	116	68	45	18	16	28	44	8
2016-17	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	77	19	42	61	38	0	6	1	3	4	0
2017-18	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	22	47	69	26	-1	7	2	7	9	4
2018-19	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	82	26	68	94	22	22	7	2	2	4	2
2019-20	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	59	16	51	67	16	6	5	0	4	4	2
2020-21	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	55	20	47	67	20	21	7	0	4	4	4
2021-22	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	72	35	62	97	16	23	7	2	6	8	2
2022-23	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	80	30	69	99	28	18	11	3	11	14	2
2023-24	Toronto Maple Leafs	NHL	69	26	59	85	18	21	7	1	2	3	2
	NHL Totals		576	194	445	639	184		57	11	39	50	18

 

I heard one suggestion that he would do better in a non-Canadian market and I have a feeling that may be true. If he wound up in, say, Carolina, I would not be surprised at all to see him writing a second half of his career where he quietly emerges as a regular season AND playoff star. Or, it may just be that he needs to get out of TO, like Kessel did.

 

Anyway, he’s 27 so outside the Habs’ window. Forget it.

 

[tomh009]

46 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Funny thing about Marner. He’s had dud playoffs, but he’s also had productive ones (2018, 2022, 2023).

Almost all of those are one series only (Leafs, you know) so it may be how the opposing team plays against Matthews-Marner. The Bruins certainly contained him, but maybe some of those other teams (2018, 2022, 2023) did not. Not sufficiently motivated to analyze my theory, though! 😊

 

But, in a sense it's a small sample as almost every year it's only against a single team.

[Peter Puck]

It's almost like he being made the scapegoat without any real evidence.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Marner's production in the playoffs hasn't been great but not awful either (50pts in 57 games). The biggest problem in my opinion is that their blueline is not nearly good enough. Reilly, Brodie, McCabe, Benoit, Edmundson, Lybushkin??  

 

It's not even close to being as good a blueline as Carolina or the Rangers, not even close. They need to spend less on forwards and more on the blueline. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

27 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Marner's production in the playoffs hasn't been great but not awful either (50pts in 57 games). The biggest problem in my opinion is that their blueline is not nearly good enough. Reilly, Brodie, McCabe, Benoit, Edmundson, Lybushkin??  

 

It's not even close to being as good a blueline as Carolina or the Rangers, not even close. They need to spend less on forwards and more on the blueline. 

I thought Edmundson was actually really great against Boston. He caused an enormous amount of pain to the leafs. 
 

I have no idea what the leafs problem is but the two things stand out to me.
 

All season long the leafs play high octane, high forecheck, puck possession game. Come the playoffs the leafs completely change their approach to a dump and chase team. I think it was the HNIC crew that were talking about this. 
 

The other thing is Keefe did a poor job coaching this year. Bad decisions at key times. Definitely not the reason the leafs lost but those bad decisions took opportunities away. 
 

Treliving is going to make a big move this offseason. I can only hope for a mistake. Marner for Anderson 

 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I don’t think it’s so much his point production. It’s just that Marner isn’t very physical and gets pushed off the puck very easily. You also won’t see him back checking too hard very often. He’s not “built” for playoff hockey. That, and the Leafs losing 99.8% of the time in round 1 set up the perfect flame. I’m not saying that it’s fully my perspective, but I believe that’s why Leafs fans target him, rather than solely his point production. Yes, I’m aware that Marner’s there to be an offensive player rather than lay out the body but that’s why he receives the hate.

[Commandant]

Marner is a very good defensive player so Im not sure about the comment about not backchecking.  Back checking isnt about physical play, its defensive play.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone to morph into Matthew Tkachuk at playoff time. The real question with Marner is - is he willing to pay the price to succeed in the playoffs? And is lack of this willingness a reason for his hit-and-miss playoff production? 

 

I don't know the answer, but that's closer to being the right question.

[Habsfan89]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone to morph into Matthew Tkachuk at playoff time. The real question with Marner is - is he willing to pay the price to succeed in the playoffs? And is lack of this willingness a reason for his hit-and-miss playoff production? 

 

I don't know the answer, but that's closer to being the right question.

Out of that core you do know he leads them in playoff points with 50pts.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Out of that core you do know he leads them in playoff points with 50pts.

 

I gave his playoff totals earlier the thread. The Leafs collectively have a playoff performance problem. I'm not so sure I would lay the blame for it at Marner's feet. But obviously, they are not going to trade Matthews (genuine superstar), Tavares is untradeable, and they seem to be all in on Nylander (who I love as a player myself). Marner is the odd man out, when it comes to the Big Four.

 

Trading a player of his stature does open up a chance to do a significant reboot of the roster, depending on how it's done. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Hopefully, more dog poop. 💩

[Habsfan89]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I gave his playoff totals earlier the thread. The Leafs collectively have a playoff performance problem. I'm not so sure I would lay the blame for it at Marner's feet. But obviously, they are not going to trade Matthews (genuine superstar), Tavares is untradeable, and they seem to be all in on Nylander (who I love as a player myself). Marner is the odd man out, when it comes to the Big Four.

 

Trading a player of his stature does open up a chance to do a significant reboot of the roster, depending on how it's done. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Hopefully, more dog poop. 💩

Soft Dcore is the problem, they don’t play physical. Also bad coaching system. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Soft Dcore is the problem, they don’t play physical. Also bad coaching system. 

 

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I always think back to Game 7 in 2021. They had nothing that night - it was as if they were defeated going in. That was really striking and definitely revealed something fundamentally wrong IMHO. 

[Habsfan89]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I always think back to Game 7 in 2021. They had nothing that night - it was as if they were defeated going in. That was really striking and definitely revealed something fundamentally wrong IMHO. 

I think they didn’t like Kef to be honest. They played like a team that hated the system they were playing in. 
 

plus I think Mitch isn’t liked because his dad . But just my opinion. 

[alfredoh2009]

so much Leafs talk on this forum

 

The Toronto Star pic.twitter.com/FmPtIK3RLD

— Michael de Adder (@deAdder) May 13, 2024

 

[Habsfan89]

Leafs misery is my joy 😂 especially being here in Toronto. 

[Commandant]

Their five Highest paid players are 4 forwards and an offensive defenceman.  They have 2 goals or less on 13 of their last 14 playoff games.

 

The team is built for offence and doesnt score.

 

Sorry Im not calling q defence core with Edmundson and Lybushkin soft.... 

 

Also they arent giving up tons of goals, blaming the defence for the losses is not correct either.

 

Every player in the NHL makes mistakes.  Thats just reality.  Carey Price got 10 million a year cause his job was to erase the mistakes of tbose who were paid less.  The leafs are built in such a way (and paid in such a way) that their best players are at the offensive end.  They need to outscore the lower paid players mistakes.

 

They dont do that and hence the leafs lose.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

13 hours ago, Commandant said:

Marner is a very good defensive player so Im not sure about the comment about not backchecking.  Back checking isnt about physical play, its defensive play.

 

Re: Pastrnak goal

 

Not saying it’s my opinion once again. But The Leafs fanbase was the one commenting on his effort level on that goal. Again, not saying one goal means anything. I am saying that this criticism came from the Leafs fanbase.

 

13 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone to morph into Matthew Tkachuk at playoff time. The real question with Marner is - is he willing to pay the price to succeed in the playoffs? And is lack of this willingness a reason for his hit-and-miss playoff production? 

 

I don't know the answer, but that's closer to being the right question.

 

 

No one is saying Marner should turn into Matthew Tkachuk. I’m not sure where you gathered that interpretation. When it comes to physicality, people were complaining that Marner is Marner, not that he is not Matthew Tkachuk.

 

 

 

[tomh009]

So, is Nichuskin done in the NHL? Or will he be able to do a comeback somewhere else? It looks like he has lost two playoff series for Avalanche now so it seems unlikely that he'd be playing for them again.