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STANLEY CUP FINAL - Game 5 - Tampa vs. Habs - 8 PM


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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

IMHO his offer sheet would be in the range costing a first and third round pick and he is a RD:

$4,110,733 - $6,166,096

 

A better fit for the Habs

 

Nashville would match at the lower end of that and the higher end would cripple Montreal's cap structure; having a third pairing RD making $6M (Petry and Weber are both above that too) is not a viable strategy with what they're already spending on defence.  The third RD spot need to be filled by someone making Kulak money.

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58 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Nashville would match at the lower end of that and the higher end would cripple Montreal's cap structure; having a third pairing RD making $6M (Petry and Weber are both above that too) is not a viable strategy with what they're already spending on defence.  The third RD spot need to be filled by someone making Kulak money.

If a player like Fabro is signed, it would open the door for a blockbuster trade to improve the team. MB would have lots of options to trade, UFAs to pursue 

Sending Weber to Nashville to finish his career there , or to Seattle, could work to the Habs advantage 

 

A core D of Edmundson-Petry and Chiarot with a third pair of Romanov-Fabro would be really good. With the prospects coming up, D would be set

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Just now, alfredoh2009 said:

If a player like Fabro is signed, it would open the door for a blockbuster trade to improve the team. MB would have lots of options to trade, UFAs to pursue 

Sending Weber to Nashville to finish his career there , or to Seattle, could work to the Habs advantage 

 

A core D of Edmundson-Petry and Chiarot with a third pair of Romanov-Fabro would be really good. With the prospects coming up, D would be set

If we are going to go for a RFA, it needs to be for a high end one. Not a guy who is expected to be on the third pairing. You don’t through your team’s salary structure out of wack for a guy who who will be a depth dman and MAY improve. You do it for someone who can step and be one of your best players. Otherwise you end up with a Dustin Penner situation.

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Last night was tough to watch! Proud of the boys and the way they played! Let's hope we can get a little more magic next year!

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3 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

It is not a reasonable line of thinking or strategy to expect the Habs to return to the Cup Finals by planning on:

A) Price repeating playing his best hockey for the longest stretch he has ever done, but be even better next time. 

B) the 2nd best player on 1st rnd opponent gets concussed in Game 1 and is out of the series.

C)  the 2nd best player on 2nd rnd opponent in Game 1 gets suspended for 4 games

D)  the 3rd rnd oppositions #2C in Game 1 gets concussed and misses 3 games. 

 

So often that teams and fans are delusional when their team makes it to the 3rd or 4th round.  There seems to be an expectation that they are guaranteed to repeat it and that they will do even better next year.   The unfortunate reality is that basically never happens.

I reject your premise that the Habs only got to the finals because of the opposition's injuries and suspensions. Evans was also concussed, Ducharme couldn't be behind the bench, and many players were skating wounded. That's the way the playoffs go.

 

I do believe that Bergevin's intent of building a team that can succeed in the playoffs has been largely successful. I don't have any illusions that we have a guaranteed SCG berth for the next few years, but I do think we have a team that can be a serious threat to win playoff rounds and not get knocked out immediately. Goaltending permitting, of course, but no team will succeed in playoffs without high-quality goaltending.

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11 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I reject your premise that the Habs only got to the finals because of the opposition's injuries and suspensions. Evans was also concussed, Ducharme couldn't be behind the bench, and many players were skating wounded. That's the way the playoffs go.

 

I do believe that Bergevin's intent of building a team that can succeed in the playoffs has been largely successful. I don't have any illusions that we have a guaranteed SCG berth for the next few years, but I do think we have a team that can be a serious threat to win playoff rounds and not get knocked out immediately. Goaltending permitting, of course, but no team will succeed in playoffs without high-quality goaltending.


while it was more then just the other teams injuries, they did have a very big impact as they allowed the Danault line to focus on their scoring line. Another big factor, until we hit Tampa was our fourth line was much better then the other teams. 
 

it is hard to say if we would have gotten past Toronto if they were full strength. I think Toronto has a deep seeded ability to choke. 
 

I also think this was about a team stepping up and playing over their heads… teams go on runs… the worse team in the league can put toGether a winning streak. The habs are not the first underdog that surprised a few teams and went far deeper then expected. History shows those teams don’t repeat the fest the next year. 
 

I do think there are many positives. Playoff experience is huge and a deep run was very good for the kids. That will serve them well in the years to come. The danger is Bergevin thinking he has a top team and all he has to do is tinker with the fourth line, maybe find another 3rd pairing D. If we get three more years of that you can be sure to see very little playoff hockey.

 

I honk we have at best two more years where Weber and Price can lift their games to that level. Bergevin needs to decide if he wants to go for it or not. If he does, he needs to get a real too puck. Icing defenceman and another gifted scorer who can still play In a defensive system.  

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Whether or not you are a fan of Price ... classy move

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I get that Price has his share of critics for his insane salary and his erratic regular-season play over the past three years. That's completely fair. But I have never heard anyone say anything bad about him as a person or a teammate.

 

He seems to me to be that rarest of commodities, a wise pro athlete. (His taciturn answers to dumb media questions usually strike me as a symptom of intelligence: he answers the question and sees its parameters more clearly than the questioner, often). Similar to Bob Gainey, you get the sense of someone who knows what is truly important, appreciates the journey has has been on, and has a very unusual sense of perspective on the bizarre and privileged world he's in. This probably comes from his origins in a tiny and remote First Nation and having been hurled into the mega-spotlight of Montreal at age 18 - the kind of experience that either ruins you or makes you something special. The sense of detachment that can come with being not quite "of" the community one is living in can also contribute to this reflective cast of mind.

 

Of all these Habs, Carey Price is probably the one that I would personally most want to have around as a friend or acquaintance - at least based on what I see of these guys in the media and on the ice. I feel like I might even learn something from the guy.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I get that Price has his share of critics for his insane salary and his erratic regular-season play over the past three years. That's completely fair. But I have never heard anyone say anything bad about him as a person or a teammate.

 

He seems to me to be that rarest of commodities, a wise pro athlete. (His taciturn answers to dumb media questions usually strike me as a symptom of intelligence: he answers the question and sees its parameters more clearly than the questioner, often). Similar to Bob Gainey, you get the sense of someone who knows what is truly important, appreciates the journey has has been on, and has a very unusual sense of perspective on the bizarre and privileged world he's in. This probably comes from his origins in a tiny and remote First Nation and having been hurled into the mega-spotlight of Montreal at age 18 - the kind of experience that either ruins you or makes you something special. The sense of detachment that can come with being not quite "of" the community one is living in can also contribute to this reflective cast of mind.

 

Of all these Habs, Carey Price is probably the one that I would personally most want to have around as a friend or acquaintance - at least based on what I see of these guys in the media and on the ice. I feel like I might even learn something from the guy.


I think Price would make an excellent politician after hockey. 
 

Canada could use his integrity and ability to walk through miles of nonsense without falling apart. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I think Price would make an excellent politician after hockey. 
 

Canada could use his integrity and ability to walk through miles of nonsense without falling apart. 

I see him as having too much character, and not enough patience with BS, for politics.

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58 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I see him as having too much character, and not enough patience with BS, for politics.

 

His mom is a politician.  I mean the chiefs of a first nation community are an elected position, so he's grown up with politics. 

Its also obvious that he cares deeply about the challenges that first nations communities continue to face in Canada. 

 

He could be a real asset in advocating for change in the political world if that is a path he wants to follow.

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1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

His mom is a politician.  I mean the chiefs of a first nation community are an elected position, so he's grown up with politics. 

Its also obvious that he cares deeply about the challenges that first nations communities continue to face in Canada. 

 

He could be a real asset in advocating for change in the political world if that is a path he wants to follow.


This is precisely my thinking and with all of the BS he has put up with in Montreal, I’m sure he can handle the nasty side of politics 

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10 minutes ago, Commandant said:

His mom is a politician.  I mean the chiefs of a first nation community are an elected position, so he's grown up with politics. 

Its also obvious that he cares deeply about the challenges that first nations communities continue to face in Canada. 

 

He could be a real asset in advocating for change in the political world if that is a path he wants to follow.

I was thinking Federal politics ... could definitely see him doing something First Nations related.

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42 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I was thinking Federal politics ... could definitely see him doing something First Nations related.

 

Former cabinet minister Ken Dryden could certainly offer some valuable mentorship if he does go that route. But I have a really hard time imagining Carey Price arguing on the floor of the House of Commons. Perhaps more likely would be some sort of charity/advocacy organization relating to First Nations, for instance. That I could see (if he’s interested). 

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51 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I was thinking Federal politics ... could definitely see him doing something First Nations related.

 

I could see him going federal, and arguing for first nations issues in the House. 

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I for one would hate to see Carey become the face of some milquetoast federal party.  Just because he seems like a thoughtful guy *by the standards of NHL players who normally try to say as little as possible to the media* doesn't mean he'd have any aptitude or inclination for politics. I can't remember him making any remarks of much substance, aside from his brief message to first nations kids when he won the Hart. This seems like a case of fan projection - wanting our sports hero to be an all around hero. He seems like someone who wouldn't seek out the spotlight anyway, more of an anonymous donor type than the face of a movement.

 

It would be inspiring, however, to see him clearly explain and lead the fight for clean drinking water on reserves. Nothing he's done would lead me to think he'll do that, though.

 

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He's made a number of statements about the indigenious situation during these playoffs.  All since the 215 stuff started. He talked about his grandmother being one of the students of residential schools, he's talked about his mom, he visited with an aboriginal activist in Winnipeg during that series.  He's actually done quite a bit these past few months. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

He's made a number of statements about the indigenious situation during these playoffs.  All since the 215 stuff started. He talked about his grandmother being one of the students of residential schools, he's talked about his mom, he visited with an aboriginal activist in Winnipeg during that series.  He's actually done quite a bit these past few months. 

 

1 hour ago, Neech said:

I for one would hate to see Carey become the face of some milquetoast federal party.  Just because he seems like a thoughtful guy *by the standards of NHL players who normally try to say as little as possible to the media* doesn't mean he'd have any aptitude or inclination for politics. I can't remember him making any remarks of much substance, aside from his brief message to first nations kids when he won the Hart. This seems like a case of fan projection - wanting our sports hero to be an all around hero. He seems like someone who wouldn't seek out the spotlight anyway, more of an anonymous donor type than the face of a movement.

 

It would be inspiring, however, to see him clearly explain and lead the fight for clean drinking water on reserves. Nothing he's done would lead me to think he'll do that, though.

 

 

I will split the difference between these two posts. It's true that Carey does not seem verbose enough - or glib enough, frankly - to be up there fencing with other MPs and getting involved in all the name-calling and undignified hurly-burly of electoral politics. But that's why I suggested an activist organization or charity. In that sort of capacity, you rely more on networking, fundraising, and private conversations, with public presentations generally occurring in a non-oppositional environment. I can see him being pretty effective at that stuff. His prestige would open a lot of doors, and his thoughtful demeanour and work ethic could bring good results.

 

That said, Neech is right, insofar as none of us really know what he's like in private, let alone what his post-hockey aspirations are. And it is unfair to expect him to become a First Nations leader just because he is indigenous. Heck, maybe he would be good in hockey management. I can totally see that too.

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On 7/8/2021 at 9:54 PM, tomh009 said:

I reject your premise that the Habs only got to the finals because of the opposition's injuries and suspensions.

....

 

I do believe that Bergevin's intent of building a team that can succeed in the playoffs has been largely successful. I don't have any illusions that we have a guaranteed SCG berth for the next few years, but I do think we have a team that can be a serious threat to win playoff rounds and not get knocked out immediately. Goaltending permitting, of course, but no team will succeed in playoffs without high-quality goaltending.

 

The freak injuries and suspension are not the only reason they made it to the Final, but it can't really be argued that those events didn't help get them there.  i.e. those series would have been harder had those players been in every game.   ex:  without Tavares the Leafs series went to 7 games, and its likely he would have scored at least 1 goal and got 1 assist which could have easily changed the final outcome of that Series.  That was Round 1. 

 

On 7/8/2021 at 9:54 PM, tomh009 said:

I do believe that Bergevin's intent of building a team that can succeed in the playoffs has been largely successful. I don't have any illusions that we have a guaranteed SCG berth for the next few years, but I do think we have a team that can be a serious threat to win playoff rounds and not get knocked out immediately.

 

 

At the moment, it is unknown is he has in fact built a team that can succeed in the Playoffs.  Using the Scientific Method a belief is only a Theory until it can be repeated and then it becomes proven. 

 

Numerous people on here often refer to the Habs as Team Tank or Bubble team, but I'm an optimist and prefer to call them Team win 1 round and then lose.  i.e. they're almost always a threat to win 1 round, their issue is with getting beyond that. 

 

 

On 7/8/2021 at 9:54 PM, tomh009 said:

 Goaltending permitting, of course, but no team will succeed in playoffs without high-quality goaltending.

 

Price played the longest stretch of the best hockey we have ever seen him play.  As he ages, is it realistic expectation to see him play even better than his previous best ever?   The unfortunately reality is that isn't likely to happen.

 

Also, with the way Price played this year if the Habs top 4 Dman were replaced with others they likely still would have won 3 rnds.  However, with those 4 dman if you changed the Goalie I'm uncertain if they would have won any of those 3 rnds.   

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On 7/9/2021 at 9:48 AM, brobin said:


while it was more then just the other teams injuries, they did have a very big impact as they allowed the Danault line to focus on their scoring line. Another big factor, until we hit Tampa was our fourth line was much better then the other teams. 
 

it is hard to say if we would have gotten past Toronto if they were full strength. I think Toronto has a deep seeded ability to choke. 
 

I also think this was about a team stepping up and playing over their heads… teams go on runs… the worse team in the league can put toGether a winning streak. The habs are not the first underdog that surprised a few teams and went far deeper then expected. History shows those teams don’t repeat the fest the next year. 
 

I do think there are many positives. Playoff experience is huge and a deep run was very good for the kids. That will serve them well in the years to come. The danger is Bergevin thinking he has a top team and all he has to do is tinker with the fourth line, maybe find another 3rd pairing D. If we get three more years of that you can be sure to see very little playoff hockey.

 

I honk we have at best two more years where Weber and Price can lift their games to that level. Bergevin needs to decide if he wants to go for it or not. If he does, he needs to get a real too puck. Icing defenceman and another gifted scorer who can still play In a defensive system.  

 

110% agree.

 

A major part of my concern is that MB will double down on his theory of needing more large slow dmen.  ex:  imagine if he trades Romy and a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick for Dougie Hamilton, and/or Kulak and and 1st or 2nd rnd pick for Seth Jones.  However, if his strategy was pure luck, the Habs could struggle to make the playoffs for years and when they do make it they lose in the 1st rnd every year. 

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How silly is it to argue how other teams “may have won” with this or without that.

 

I mean I really view that as a NEGATIVE viewpoint. Tavares helping them win is absolutely hypothetical even though it seems “obvious” to point out, and Scheifele’s actions were as a result of the Habs absolutely smothering Winnipeg in their first game.

 

The Habs still shut down Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers, Matthews, Marner, Stone, Pacioretty, and many more.

 

What about the reality that the Habs played with Petry, who couldn’t take a shot due to his broken fingers, or the reality that we lost our coach for 5 games during our playoff run.

 

I could easily say the Habs could have won the cup if Petry doesn’t get injured, and we did not lose our coach for a few games, but those who already have their minds made up would simply argue that Richardson was a good enough replacement and that Petry still showed up on the ice.

 

The Habs deserved to make the final and since science was randomly brought up, it cannot be scientifically proven that we would have lost had we faced Toronto with Tavares just because we make up that he would have had an extra two points for Toronto, and it’s even less likely that we would have lost to Winnipeg even had they had Scheifele.

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The Habs played with Petry with broken fingers, Weber with a broken thumb, lost one of their highest paid forwards in Drouin for the entire playoffs, Jake Evans played over 18 minutes of solid hockey and was concussed and put out for two rounds in Game 1 against Winnipeg, and the team had to survive without their head coach for most of the semi-final and first two games of the final.

 

Its fun to look at the other team's injuries and suspensions and make excuses based on them, but not look at the adversity the Habs had too.

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Every team deals with injuries/absences in the playoffs.  The Habs were on the the right side of the balance for the first few rounds, but luck caught up with us in the finals (the Lightning were missing Killorn, but he's what, their 10th best player?). Also, we don't beat the elite Leafs and Knights squads without gifts from their goalies, but Vasi was not in a gift-giving mood.  If we had the goaltending equation in our favour in the final we would have had a chance.

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1 hour ago, Neech said:

 ...we don't beat the elite Leafs and Knights squads without gifts from their goalies...

'Likely' dont , but no one knows how would of played out, other than if a parallel universe can be checked.:ph34r:

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13 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

The freak injuries and suspension are not the only reason they made it to the Final, but it can't really be argued that those events didn't help get them there.  i.e. those series would have been harder had those players been in every game.   ex:  without Tavares the Leafs series went to 7 games, and its likely he would have scored at least 1 goal and got 1 assist which could have easily changed the final outcome of that Series.  That was Round 1. 

 

(...)

 

At the moment, it is unknown is he has in fact built a team that can succeed in the Playoffs.  Using the Scientific Method a belief is only a Theory until it can be repeated and then it becomes proven.

By that criterion, Tavares is not even a theory, as it didn't even happen once. If he had played, he might have been a factor, or he might now.

 

My aunt would be my uncle, too, if only ...

 

It's funny how we complain about the team when they struggle. And when they have a successful playoff run, getting within three games of the cup, we dig deep to find countless reasons why they were just lucky and they still suck, and Bergevin will make bad decisions in the off-season, and the team will suck even worse next year. It's certainly the glass-is-half-empty view of the world.

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