2023 NHL Playoffs

[Commandant]

15 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Eichel got absolutely flattened in a huge open ice hit by Tkachuk.  

 

Although Eichel is really good I don't get the impression that Vegas will miss him.  

 

 

 

Eichel has been Vegas best player in the playoffs.  They would miss him. 

he's back though. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Yeah I’m with Commandant on this one. Eichel has been incredible and consider the Vegas depth that allows Eichel to play third line. 
 

Savage hit though - I thought Eichel was done for the series 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Savage hit though - I thought Eichel was done for the series 

Instantly thought of Slafkovski or Guhle...putting themselves in vulnerable situations to get smoked like Eichel did.

Eichel said was it a clean hit, just was too tired-reaching for puck-and toe-picked also.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, DON said:

 

Eichel said was it a clean hit, just was too tired-reaching for puck-and toe-picked also.

 

Did he say fatigue was a factor? Because I continue to maintain that that was part of the reason for the Habs' injury plague this year - guys playing over their heads, getting overwhelemed/exhausted and vulnerable as a result.

 

Hard not to think FLA is toast. Shocking turnaround for Bob, and it shows how hard it is to play at absolute peak for four series. Even Price slipped during the first couple of games in the Finals in '21 and that settled it.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Did he say fatigue was a factor? Because I continue to maintain that that was part of the reason for the Habs' injury plague this year - guys playing over their heads, getting overwhelemed/exhausted and vulnerable as a result.

 

Hard not to think FLA is toast. Shocking turnaround for Bob, and it shows how hard it is to play at absolute peak for four series. Even Price slipped during the first couple of games in the Finals in '21 and that settled it.

 

he was quoted as saying fatigue played a factor... and I agree with you on the Habs injuries

[Sir_Boagalott]

13 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Yeah I’m with Commandant on this one. Eichel has been incredible and consider the Vegas depth that allows Eichel to play third line. 
 

Savage hit though - I thought Eichel was done for the series 

 

It is Vegas' depth is the exact reason why I opined that Vegas likely wouldn't miss him if he was seriously injured.  I was quite surprised that he was back, I figured for sure that he would probably be concussed from that hit.  Trouba smoked Meier with a similar hit and he was concussed.  Plus, Eichel had a crazy surgery so I figured he would definitely miss some time.

 

People can think whatever they want, but I'm not the only 1 that says Eichel is not their best player.  If Eichel is Vegas' best player then why exactly does Fan Duel have Marchessault as the current favourite to win the Conn Smythe?   Ironically, I posed that same question yesterday. 

 

It's not looking good for Florida.  Teams that win the 1st two games in the Cup Final have a 91% of winning.  There was similar odds for teams that had a lot off time off too.  Only 1 out of 10 teams that have a lot of time off between 3rd and 4th round with the Cup. 

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

It is Vegas' depth is the exact reason why I opined that Vegas likely wouldn't miss him if he was seriously injured.  I was quite surprised that he was back, I figured for sure that he would probably be concussed from that hit.  Trouba smoked Meier with a similar hit and he was concussed.  Plus, Eichel had a crazy surgery so I figured he would definitely miss some time.

 

People can think whatever they want, but I'm not the only 1 that says Eichel is not their best player.  If Eichel is Vegas' best player then why exactly does Fan Duel have Marchessault as the current favourite to win the Conn Smythe?   Ironically, I posed that same question yesterday. 

 

It's not looking good for Florida.  Teams that win the 1st two games in the Cup Final have a 91% of winning.  There was similar odds for teams that had a lot off time off too.  Only 1 out of 10 teams that have a lot of time off between 3rd and 4th round with the Cup. 

 

 

The way Eichel’s neck snapped all the way to the opposite side was crazy and I thought for sure that he was facing significant damage. 
 

Marchessault has also been really, really good and nobody would be surprised if he did win MVP. 
 

Vegas depth and size are crushing Florida and we might see a sweep. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Marchessault has also been really, really good and nobody would be surprised if he did win MVP. 
 

Vegas depth and size are crushing Florida and we might see a sweep. 

 

Crazy to think that Florida gave Marchessault to VGK *free* in the expansion draft. That was always one of the stupidest moves in NHL history, and a Conn Smythe for the guy would seal it.

 

Things look bad for FLA now, but their best chance to make a series of it is tonight. Bob has to be better, that's all there is to it. In '21 Price recovered his form by Game 3, if memory serves; and while that was too little too late, VGK - a very strong club, yes - are not the Tampa Bay Lightning of 2021.  

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Crazy to think that Florida gave Marchessault to VGK *free* in the expansion draft ...

 

THAT was the expansion draft that schooled GMs on the modern expansion draft ... no more "keep everyone you like, and few you don't" protected lists.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

31 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

THAT was the expansion draft that schooled GMs on the modern expansion draft ... no more "keep everyone you like, and few you don't" protected lists.

 

The draft was a month after Dale Tallon was hired as GM (again). I read somewhere that he was basically fire-bombing the entire "advanced stats" mindset of the previous regime and that JM was the darling of the advanced stats crowd, so he was only too happy to dump him.

 

Incredible stupidity from highly-paid people in powerful positions. 

[dlbalr]

7 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The draft was a month after Dale Tallon was hired as GM (again). I read somewhere that he was basically fire-bombing the entire "advanced stats" mindset of the previous regime and that JM was the darling of the advanced stats crowd, so he was only too happy to dump him.

 

Incredible stupidity from highly-paid people in powerful positions. 

 

There was another element in there as well, Vegas taking on five years and $25M of Reilly Smith.  Marchessault was the penalty they had to pay to clear the salary they needed to open up to fit a reduced budget; they had to leave him unprotected to set up the swap.  Tough way to do it for sure but this wasn't just Tallon not caring about losing Marchessault.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

31 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

There was another element in there as well, Vegas taking on five years and $25M of Reilly Smith.  Marchessault was the penalty they had to pay to clear the salary they needed to open up to fit a reduced budget; they had to leave him unprotected to set up the swap.  Tough way to do it for sure but this wasn't just Tallon not caring about losing Marchessault.

 

But Smith has been very useful for VGK. I'm not sure this exonerate Tallon of the charge of stupidity. It arguably compounds it.

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

But Smith has been very useful for VGK. I'm not sure this exonerate Tallon of the charge of stupidity. It arguably compounds it.

I was hoping we’d make a deal to land Theadore. He’d be our best Dman right now.

[GHT120]

12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

But Smith has been very useful for VGK. I'm not sure this exonerate Tallon of the charge of stupidity. It arguably compounds it.

 

I believe the point was that Florida ownership had imposed an internal budget that necessitated moving out Smith's contract ... it wasn't Tallon's preference in terms of talent/roster management, but rather budget management.

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

I believe the point was that Florida ownership had imposed an internal budget that necessitated moving out Smith's contract ... it wasn't Tallon's preference in terms of talent/roster management, but rather budget management.

 

Yep.  His mandate was to dump salary and Smith didn't have much trade value at the time because of the contract (he was coming off a 15-goal year, not great value for $5M on a long-term contract).  Thus, in order to get that deal off the books, he had to add Marchessault as the sweetener.  

[Neech]

More Tkachuk magic. It's crazy how often he's Johnny on the spot.

[DON]

I guess still can maybe hope for 31st and not the 32nd pick, go Vegas, win the next 2 will ya.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If FLA does pull this off, does Tkachuk now get the Conn Smythe, given Bob’s bobbles in the first two games? 🤔

[DON]

Mid June hockey seems so goofy, just end already.

[huzer]

That’s a couple of times in this series Hill was throwing haymakers with his blocker and trapper out there.

[Peter Puck]

Florida this year seems like a copy of the 2021 Habs.  They finished last in the East, overcame a 3-1 deficit in the first round, then won 2 series fairly easily to make the finals.  They are relying on their goalie and when his level of play drops in the final they fade.  Will they also lose the final in 5 games?

 

 

[Helmethead]

2 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

Florida this year seems like a copy of the 2021 Habs.  They finished last in the East, overcame a 3-1 deficit in the first round, then won 2 series fairly easily to make the finals.  They are relying on their goalie and when his level of play drops in the final they fade.  Will they also lose the final in 5 games?

 

 

Is that why I’m drawn to them?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

9 hours ago, Peter Puck said:

Florida this year seems like a copy of the 2021 Habs.  They finished last in the East, overcame a 3-1 deficit in the first round, then won 2 series fairly easily to make the finals.  They are relying on their goalie and when his level of play drops in the final they fade.  Will they also lose the final in 5 games?

 

 

 

It is kind of eerie how similar their arc is. I had the same thought watching them struggle last night.

 

I hate the fact that VGK was basically handed a contender by the combination of overly-generous expansion rules and GM stupidity, the most spectacular example of which was Tallon’s throwing away of Marchessault. As much as I wish Florida would win - after 30 years in the league, they’ve paid their dues, unlike Vegas - there is a karmic fittingness in them paying the ultimate price for such stupidity. 

 

In fact, you could even point to Sergachev to deepen the parallel with the 2021 Habs. Not that Sergachev was as impactful as Marchessault, but it’s hard to believe that he wouldn’t have made *some* difference in the Finals in ‘21. Subtract him from TB and add him to the Habs, who knows, maybe that’s an extra win in that series.

[BCHabnut]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It is kind of eerie how similar their arc is. I had the same thought watching them struggle last night.

 

I hate the fact that VGK was basically handed a contender by the combination of overly-generous expansion rules and GM stupidity, the most spectacular example of which was Tallon’s throwing away of Marchessault. As much as I wish Florida would win - after 30 years in the league, they’ve paid their dues, unlike Vegas - there is a karmic fittingness in them paying the ultimate price for such stupidity. 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Another thing I've been thinking about, but haven't researched, is how many "zero state tax' teams have been in the semis and especially the Finals in the last 10 years? Maybe it's not enough to discuss, but it feels like there's been a lot in the last 5 at least.

[GHT120]

7 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I couldn't agree more. Another thing I've been thinking about, but haven't researched, is how many "zero state tax' teams have been in the semis and especially the Finals in the last 10 years? Maybe it's not enough to discuss, but it feels like there's been a lot in the last 5 at least.

 

I've long-advocated for a "post-tax" cap system with contracts that guarantee "take-home" pay ... there would be some issues to resolve (e.g., is the basis for conversion the city where he signed the contract or where he is playing when converted) but it would level the playing field.